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"Don't you just love stopping by people's apartments?
-- Spencer Chow (spencercho...), May 9th, 2005."

Jeez, Spencer... is that sarcasm I detect?
This is Nick Sylvester we're talking about. It's not like he's one of those shallow, superficial L.A. people.

On a Strict El Cholo Diet (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 9 May 2005 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link

the mayer thing still bugs me. ... it doesn't "go anywhere" or "do anything"? wtf? it just sounds like the talk of a guy who supposedly makes dance music but doesn't dance.

it made me think almost the opposite, like the problems i have with some ompakt(ish) tunes...well, sometimes they do sound like just the beginning. there's no there there innit. DFA tunes tend to go through stages as if there's this dance telos moment they wish to achieve. like, Hasn't anyone learned anything from what we learned about making disco tracks, making disco edits that just get better and better and better? made me really excited. do that! i'll do it as long as i can dance to it!

W i l l (common_person), Monday, 9 May 2005 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Great read, Daria's otm. I think the 'confusion' about Murphy's comments on the Mayer-track is largely caused by the way they're written down (and because of fanboy kneejerk responses, probably ;-)). I like his view on the 'importance' of a canon, without making it too big of an issue.

willem (willem), Monday, 9 May 2005 20:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I think I know what he means on the Mayer track...a reverse key follow filter meaning (I'm assuming) that the hook is a loop programmed to gradually change in some way...and he's complaining that all the producer does is increase and decrease levels on the track and doesn't need to do much else..he's arguing that this is what killed disco, that the producers made it so easy to follow a pattern and reach a climax that the genre imploded....I'm not sure I agree (with this specific track)

Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Monday, 9 May 2005 21:39 (nineteen years ago) link

He doesn't like lewdness cuz he's 35.

Lethal Dizzle (djdee2005), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 02:28 (nineteen years ago) link

er, i understood the "disco edits" comment differently. isn't he saying disco's great because the songs are densely and inventively arranged? so you have lots of possibilities for lifting bits, for chopping it up, for sampling. and beyond that, the interesting arrangements mean that 20 years later carl craig can still be dropping "disco circus" or something into a house set and it sounds good.

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link

"Don't you just love stopping by people's apartments?
-- Spencer Chow (spencercho...), May 9th, 2005."

Jeez, Spencer... is that sarcasm I detect?
This is Nick Sylvester we're talking about. It's not like he's one of those shallow, superficial L.A. people.

-- On a Strict El Cholo Diet (fiestasandsiestas(nospam)@yahoo.com), May 9th, 2005.

omg roffle

Al (sitcom), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 02:40 (nineteen years ago) link

continuing on my rant, i was thrilled by the mayer comment. yes, there's a place for minimally-arranged or structured music. that place is 1985, in the case of acid house. similarly, watching the video for joey beltram's "forklift" (i posted a link earlier today) this morning made me realize why i am so turned off by most of the speicher series - with a few exceptions, it's the same old shit, with a design-friendly new european face.

vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 02:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Forced Premise: "Boats"

James: That sounds good. This has to be you and your friends.

Pitchfork: It is. Will you remix it?

James: I'm not sure. I really--

Pitchfork: It's about my ex-girlfriend.

James: Okay, that's--

Pitchfork: She dumped me for an LA type who graduated from Harvard-Westlake. Now I hate Weezer.

James: I don't see why that's--

Pitchfork: I want to crush him with boats.

James: So East Coast.

broken down (noisemeltdown), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link


more new words and stuff from james murphy :

http://www.ireallylovemusic.co.uk/q_and_a.htm

mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 07:18 (nineteen years ago) link

James and vahid just outlined a lot of my own issues with a certain ILM cornerstone.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 10:46 (nineteen years ago) link

people be likin weezer

strng hlkngtn, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 10:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Murphy seems like a total jackass in that pfork piece.
-- adam (hexenductio...), May 9th, 2005. (later)

otm. perhaps Michael Mayer should make more song based music, which goes somewhere. bah this is just the usual DFA real band bias thing which always comes through.

I wonder how much further this masculinisation of disco can go!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:46 (nineteen years ago) link

maybe we can turn disco into detroit techno!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:46 (nineteen years ago) link

i actually think a lot of mayer's music and especially his remixes are song based in a structural sense as opposed to a lot of kompakt releases which are one loop repeated / modulated ad infinitum.

stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 11:52 (nineteen years ago) link

It's wonky to have a "real band bias" when you're also praising Lil' Louis and disco edits, I'd say.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:06 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah cos there were no instruments in disco........


stir I was being facetious a bit I guess, that's what seems odd about the comment aswell, and probably makes it not specific to Mayer really, not much of his stuff is based on total repetition. Even Kompakt as a label, relative to other dance labels, are quite song based, I'd have said.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:21 (nineteen years ago) link

So disco was made by real bands? You still being facetious?

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Not all of it, but if you're going to argue that the band/producer mode being advocated implicitly by the "that's just the beginning" comments is common to house/techno etc then I'd love to hear that

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:28 (nineteen years ago) link

so james murphy didn't actually get into dahnce music till he was pushing 30???

N_RQ, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:30 (nineteen years ago) link

and you can see the same bias reflected in the massive difference in label operation between Kompakt and DFA.

Murphy's "you turn that up and down for 7 minutes and mute shit, go fuck yourself" typifies this.

If I want an egomaniacal record once every 7 years I'll come back to you dude.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 12:34 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah cos there were no instruments in disco........

And there's no programming/synths in DFA productions...

And explain how "song-based" equates to "real band" while you're at it.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I get the feeling James is a bit more about the end result anyway. I know I am - song structures or not, the records I've dipped into in this genre sound to me like one long yawn too.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link

whereas Daft Punk didn't even bother turning shit up and down on their last loop?

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:08 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost

what genre?

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm referring to Kompakt and click/minimal/micro house. And I really did make an effort here, but this is why I recently claimed I'm totally wary of taking recommendations from ILM in general*. It may also be tied into my leeriness of most current electropop-sounding stuff (in case anyone thinks I'm going around with a generalisation brush)

*Mind you, yesterday's Lush thread was a nice tip.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:13 (nineteen years ago) link

song based doesn't equate to real band.

my point was that Murphy is of the virtuoso/auteur side of things and always will be.

Kompakt are not, and the Kompakt guys for all their overblown images are all still prolific and just get on with making records, which are not massive sprawling masterpieces but anthems specific to their own scene.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link

and also, who cares how long it took Mayer to make a track or what he did to make it, who cares and who the fuck even KNOWS!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

James: I don't like scenes. Scenes are always filled with terrible music.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:20 (nineteen years ago) link

song based doesn't equate to real band.

Just looking for the reasoning with which both phrases appeared in the same short, facetious paragraph is all.

perhaps Michael Mayer should make more song based music, which goes somewhere. bah this is just the usual DFA real band bias thing which always comes through.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:22 (nineteen years ago) link

well Barima, i don't take many recommendations from ILM because i know i'd end up with loads of electropop/ electro-house. different strokes and all that.

xpost - Ronan, i've no idea whay you treat this stuff like a personal insult to you, esp where the DFA are concerned.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd like ILM to recommend me more massive sprawling masterpieces, actually.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:29 (nineteen years ago) link

ok - Harry Thuman's "Underwater".

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Dope!

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't treat it as a personal insult. I just think it's rubbish!

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:36 (nineteen years ago) link

and as if lcd soundsystem aren't themselves part of a scene

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:37 (nineteen years ago) link

their listeners probably are, but not necessarily the band. that's potentially an interesting distinction.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Cue a page from The History Of Bands Disdaining Their Fans.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

if that was true about kompakt -- this old 'funktional fellows, making tracks for their scene, gosh they probably take their DATS straight down the club' -- is v old fashioned and folky. i sympathise, but if it were truthful, why would it speak to anyone outside the scene?

N_RQ, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

that's nothing to do with what I said, N-RQ.

and even if it was, the scene in their case is rather big.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

it's nothing to do with folkiness or the guys themselves, I was specifically talking about the number of releases.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think criticising the DFA on prolificness grounds actually works.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

If that's part of your argument, I mean.

The Irrelevant Man (Negativa) (Barima), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

"Kompakt guys [...] just get on with making records, which are not massive sprawling masterpieces but anthems specific to their own scene."

that's what you said: it does seem to champion the local and the folky against the virtuoso auteurs -- which is fair play, but it needs explaining how the products of scenes translate.

N_Rq, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think local/folky versus virtuoso auteurs is the only possible scenario here. Many people would balk at the idea of multiple releases per month, though not in dance circles, Kompakt is certainly not folky, I think though, it's fairly accurate to say that Kompakt itself is the sprawling entity, and there are enough different facets to it to allow for a whole load of internalised conflict.

I'm not sure how this came to be such a specific Kompakt VS DFA thing, though I'm sure it's my fault.

I am not saying, by default, that labels which are more prolific are better. But since the criticism of the Mayer record seemed to suggest it was just tacked together and rush released, I offer a counter argument, not for the sake of contrarianism, but because I genuinely believe that a more sweatshop style environment produces better music and better art.

There's only so many puffed up pieces you can read about the DFA before actually having to consider how many records they've actually released in the 3 years they've been in the public domain.

Very few. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd say it's not a quality over quantity issue either, there's just been very little to follow the initial excitement whatsoever.

I think this issue reared its head on some other thread when someone freaked out and said I liked Ghostly International.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Making "rock" recs lends itself to initial excitement vs eventual "this isn't sufficiently NEW and exciting" letdown, tho, as opposed to the Kompaktstyle jillions of recs people eventually notice and feel no great need for "advancement" w/in when it comes to further output, y'know? Putting out more recs is harder for the DFA than for Kompakt (and the DFA've put out a fair few, really). JM himself seems v aware of this. He says as much in that thing.

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:37 (nineteen years ago) link

"Harder" no sure but w/out losing "CRED" which is what sells DFA records

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Also diff markets but I think that's formed by what I'm talkin about yeah

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link

There's only so many puffed up pieces you can read about the DFA before actually having to consider how many records they've actually released in the 3 years they've been in the public domain.

It strikes me as a reasonable amount to be honest, taking into account blatant 'perfectionist' stance of Murphy's. But I don't like labels and artists that are too prolific right now just because I am not really keeping track of any of it at all.

$V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:43 (nineteen years ago) link

kompakt is more people than DFA, isn't it? ronan is porbably right that the need to put stuff out there is good for fans, but it doesn't in itself promote innovation. this is a simon reynolds view based on his notion of capitalist competition as paradigm for scenius, people pushing each other. but capitalism doesn't work that way, better products usurping inferior. capitalism often tends towards stagnation and monopoly.

N_RQ, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 14:48 (nineteen years ago) link


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