Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

Jewel -vs- Bobby Short .. dunno .. I was thinking Wayne Shorter when I read it & don't give a shit about Jewel in any case.

I still can't get Steely Dan but I've learned to respect them. they use the studio as it was designed, as a transparent tool for maximum control over the sound, invisible & seamless: they clearly aren't 'live' performances, but there's no overt signs in the music indicating that they aren't, they still refer to an idealized version of live music. in the early 80's when I started buying records they seemed to be missing the point entirely, I liked people who used the studio as an expressive, intrusive instrument, I wanted the seams to show. 20 years later I'm increasingly sick of blathering self-induglent eno-damage & the SD records now seem like miracles of restraint.

still left slightly cold by the sound though. but anyone who's spent any time in a studio or has any experience in engineering has to give it up for the accomplishment.

Another arrogant moron writing for Pitchfork. No fucking idea what a 'copyist' does but that doesn't stop him from sneering.

really enjoying jody's posts.

i didnt expect my invoking jewel would prompt people to start posting her lyrics

FAGEN: Hell, we steal. We're the robber barons of rock 'n' roll.

MUSICIAN: Well, the only other thing on the record that seems obviously borrowed is "Glamour Profession." The rhythm and feel of it, and the way the synthesizer/horn vamp swings against the pulse sounds very much like Dr. Buzzard's Original Savannah Band.

BECKER: I don't listen to them. Donald listens to them. But I see what you mean though.

MUSICIAN: I'm not saying it was necessarily a conscious act of pilferage.

FAGEN: That song was influenced by disco music in general.

MUSICIAN: Nouveau Swing Disco?

FAGEN: What you're saying is basically valid. There are other things that are borrowed too. The bridge on "Glamour Profession" is a take on the bridge of Kurt Weill's "Speak Low."

BECKER: Which is taken from Ravel.

MUSICIAN: What about popular music? Anything going on that you might be a bit more enthusiastic about?

BECKER: I've had a tough time with the radio lately. It's pathetic.

FAGEN: The Talking Heads are very interesting. They're a top band.

MUSICIAN: That's what happens when you go to the Rhode Island School of Design.

FAGEN: Fortunately, it's mainly their album covers that I like. The covers and the guy's eyes are great. There's at least an intelligence behind them, which is more than you can say for most groups.

BECKER: Further and further as time goes by... they're leaving it in the dust.

FAGEN: I like Donna Summers' records.

BECKER: I bought the single, "Turn Out The Lights." Had to have it.

FAGEN: I did like Dr. Buzzard's first record. But only that one.

MUSICIAN: So I guess it's pretty bleak out there, is that what you're saying?

BECKER: I guess, unless there's something out there that's being suppressed, which is entirely possible.

FAGEN: Oh, you know what I went for in a way, Ian Drury and The Blockheads. More of a comedy thing.

That Musician interview that JBR is quoting is awesome. They have such great, wry rapport. I honestly don't think I'd ever read an interview or heard them speak at length until I saw all those Las Vegas clips promoting the last record. Those were priceless. I think they could carry their own TV show!

I loved Chaki's story about driving on Sunset and hearing "Babylon Sisters". There lyrics have that quality that allows them to insinuate themselves into your life in funny ways. Sometimes I'll be walking around and the line "Here come those Santa Ana winds again" will pop into my head. ANd I don't think I've ever been to Santa Ana! But it's not really the melody that gets caught in your head, it's the sentiment, the feeling .. if that makes any sense.

I just tried to find a link for those clips, but it looks like they must have taken them down :(

No, because they are cold and unfeeling studio technocrats.

Walter and Donald ride around in a taxi in Las Vegas

ha, I'm here - it's just that when someone busts out the "SD is boring"/aor/what-punk-was-against/et al I feel this crushing weight that must be what freshman Survey of English Lit. profs feel when some student who's never read anything pre-20th century comes with the "this isn't pertinent!" etc.: I just want to say, firmly and as calmly as I can: "Have you actually listened to the records?" because Steely Dan is so unambiguously not what their detractors almost invariably accuse them of being ("laid back," "mellow," etc) that there's hardly any point in arguing about it

OK. OK. OK. When you have a band like Steely Dan, whose lyrics put pretty much everybody else's to shame, then it's at best narrow-minded to assume that any aspect of what they're doing isn't meaningful. What I mean: when, say, the White Stripes rock out, I don't think they're trying to engage their rock with their lyrics in any particular way: they're just doing what they like to do, approaching their craft in the way that seems best to them. The lyrics may engage with the music (more aggressive lyrics for more aggressive music, for example) but it'd take some work to suggest that the inverse was ever the case. With Steely Dan, on the other hand: the production, the melodies, the changes, all that stuff bounces off the lyrics (in markedly different ways, I might add; again, if variances in production aren't audible to you, then you're not listening very hard) in ridiculously pointed (and, I'd say, rather obvious) ways. "Glamor Profession" is probably the most obvious example. In a way, the snide "oooh, slick" that they sometimes get amounts to a "mission accomplished" for Becker & Fagen: they have successfully talked above their audience. That this has been their goal all along is perhaps on of the most hilariously cynical things in the history of music.

indifferent aristocracy.....yeah keep dropping those 10 ratings on Radiohead and Modest Mouse, they're positively "bands-of-the-people"

Interesting question, might be worthy of a new thread.... can you explain what you mean a bit more 'though?

Why is it forever being brought up in a "I like insert name of group or genre even though Punk was all about destroying re-inset name of group or genre " sense? All those endless "liking Prog is more Punk than hating Prog" threads. I remember being embarassed when Sonic Youth started going on about Punk Rock like they'd just invented it and that was in 1987 or something.

It would be tempting to suggest that maybe punk somehow resolved itself in the UK in a way that it didn't in the US.

I imagine if I was a young US punk I might write that as something more like "punk got beaten in the UK but it didn't in the US"!

To be honest I strongly suspect that "Punk" in the UK and "Punk" in the US have / had only the most superficial similarities anyway.

Unfortunately I don't know enough about the US punk scene to even attempt to defend any of those statements.

The only connection to Yes I can think of is after Sid and Jah Wobble had their altercation with Bob Harris at The Speakeasy, Rick Wakeman jumped on the bandwagon, threw his rattle out of his pram, and wrote to the Board of A&M telling them that if the 'Pistols weren't thrown off the label then he'd quit (I believe Elton John was involved in that too IIRC).

Even then, I think A&M were far more worried about the possibility of losing Peter Frampton (who had the same Agent as Bob Harris) than they were about losing Wakeman.

this thread needs Jody to put it back on the rails.