Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

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ha ha, that review in TEH guardian made me laugh when it came out. Somone pointed out it can almost be read both as sarcastic condemnation OR as the widest-eyed accolade ever: viz

That's Big Kenny and John Rich, with rappin' sidekick Cowboy Troy, who's black, which of course, is treated as a huge novelty. Billed as "country without prejudice" - in other words, country that recognises that other genres actually exist - this monumentally straightforward record's claims to innovation are like asking a woman to be wildly appreciative that her husband just about manages to cook a fry-up once a month. Horse of a Different Color sounds like Billy Ray Cyrus driving a juggernaut - that's how innovative it is. If you squint really hard you might just be able to convince yourself there's something faintly homoerotic about the whole ghastly enterprise, but that's pushing it. Actually, peek inside the booklet and you will find Kenny and John wearing Wild West-style dresses and, natch, ironic expressions. Like the Bush twins at the MTV awards, this is arch-conservatism in a half-hearted search for cool. Big? Almost certainly and hence, quite probably, rich too. Not, by any means, clever.

FIVE STARS

Jaunty Alan (Alan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

it's like a zooming-out mandelbrot set of smirks.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought maybe the five grey stars were all unfilled, ie. nought stars

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:38 (nineteen years ago) link

sadly the dance mixes don't do big & rich justice. more rednex than what a big & rich dance mix could be. a let-down

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Mitch is right - it was a zero-star rating.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? Big Jim Jehosophat and Fatbelly Jones did this sort of stuff so much better in the '70s.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:00 (nineteen years ago) link

My opinion? That review is pretty funny except that it pretends to be about the record, which it isn't. I can understand not liking the record, maybe, if your prejudices go that way, but that review was clearly written after listening to the first two songs ("Wild West Show" isn't really a very good song to my ears, I've already said that) and a big bile build-up after seeing the Republican Nat'l Convention on the telly. It's so much fun to hate Americans, I do it too all the time! But note the lack of specifics and figure it out for yrselves etc.

Fatbelly Jones. Marcello...well, there's nothing to say here.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Also Peter Watts of Time Out and sometimes of this parish said it was a one-listen novelty, just like Goldie Lookin Chain and Jet.

I sent for a copy of the Big and Rich album and have listened to it.

Having done so, I agree with Mr Peschek's conclusions.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:06 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - Yes, but Alan's point is that the star rating is in a state of Heisenberg uncertainty until you actually get to the end of the review.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:09 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post to MC

Like I said, it's okay to dislike the record. But you cannot "agree with Mr Peschek's conclusions," because he does not actually conclude anything. He just takes some cheap shots, ha ha wot a larf. It's adorable, just the kind of thing I need to confirm my favorite Guardian stereotypes, but it's not a review. I'd love it if you'd care to review the record, Mr. Carlin, because I know you'd back up your dislike with actual evidence so I could try to understand it.

It isn't even my favorite country record of the year, but it's NOT the Bush twins either.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

The star rating is clearly zero stars, as would have been evident had you read the review in its original published context.

I do admit, however, that the website design and colour schemes could lead to ambiguity.

So the solution is for the Guardian Unlimited webmasters to redesign their graphics accordingly such that a zero-star rating can be interpreted as such, rather than a five-star rating.

I plan to return to considering this record on my blog, my arguments supported by quantifiable fact, in due course.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:18 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - Yes, but Alan's point is that the star rating is in a state of Heisenberg uncertainty until you actually get to the end of the review.

So if we put Pastor Troy in a sealed container with a vial of poison gas...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:19 (nineteen years ago) link

"considering" haha

...and yet, I'll read it. I'm curious about Fatbelly Jones, I guess.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:21 (nineteen years ago) link

that grauniad review doesn't want NOVELTY, it doesn't want token nods towards other genres, it wants REAL innovation, REAL depth of understanding and considered, measured interpretations that borrow from the authentic CORE of the genre, not its most visible excesses.

best definition of rockism evah.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:23 (nineteen years ago) link

the blashpeme thread is elsewhere, folks...

frankE (frankE), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes, stop taking my name in vain.

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

better in theory than in practice

Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:02 (nineteen years ago) link

So, what kind of stuff *does* that Guardian doofus consider truly "innovative" or "clever" or whatever? I'm really curious. He's not completely off-base; in fact, he repeated a couple things I said upthread (about racial tokenism, et. al.), and maybe in my *Voice review if you count the homoerotica (which you hardly have to bend over backwards to notice; it's totally in your face, but whatever.) But Matt is right (except obviously about the great "Wild Wild West," still) - this twit gives no indication at all that he listened to the record (not even the first two songs, as far as I'm concerned.) What exactly is Billy Ray Cyrus-like about them? He never says. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's never heard Billy Ray Cyrus either. Actually, I kinda get the idea he just plains HATES MUSIC. So to hell with him.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link

(oops. "Wild West Show," I meant. God what a gorgeous song.)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Chuck, i've never heard you say a song is "gorgeous" before. I think you're wrong, its verses are as "dull" to me as Allison Moorer's are to you and the Native American tokenism is foul and boring and the only good thing is the "Hey Ya" part, but I just didn't think that word was really part of your vocabulary.

There's so much more homoerotica in Montgomery Gentry than Big and Rich, even though I wouldn't put it past the latter to kiss onstage. And Brooks and Dunn are the homoeroticest of all.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link

And David Peschek co-founded Uncut, I think. He seems to like Nellie McKay, Sondre Lerche, and Simian. He's one of the world's biggest experts on Jeff Buckley.

So, y'know, whatever.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

*i hate everything* is my fave single right now. george strait is punk rock's newest star.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

>He's one of the world's biggest experts on Jeff Buckley.<

holy fucking shit. that explains a LOT.

I say gorgeous WAY too often, Matt (especially when talking about dark metal and stuff like that) - where the heck have you been? "Wild West Show" is gorgeous like Ennio Morricone is gorgeous. Dark, too!

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

And I mean, it's quite possibly the most SPACIOUS (as in white open) song I've heard on the radio this year. Timbaland should be taking notes (and I wouldn't put it past him, to be honest.)

(PS: btw, Matt, are you gonna rewrite Bersuit or not? I need it now!! I asked you in an email a couple days ago, but I never heard back....)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

"I Hate Everything" vs "Holidays in the Sun"

dave q, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, I guess my brother has kept my copy of Stairway too long. doesn't make me like "WWShow" though.

I sometimes wonder if one's judgment of musical "gorgeous" has anything to do with one's aesthetic senses about women/men, visual art, etc. then of course I have a beer and put on some gilberto gil and suddenly my head stops hurting, because his stuff from the late 1960s/early 1970s is the fucking epitome of dark and gorgeous to me.

yeah chuck I'm writing it tonight, I never got your email!!!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

as in WIDE open, I meant. wow.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha nice one

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"White open spaces" sounds like it should be the slogan of Protect Arizona Now.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

White open wasn't intentional? Dammit! You shoulda just played along.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Come back Men Without Hats, all is forgiven! Come back Beck, Rednex, Ten Pole Tudor and countless forgotten Saturday Night Live music genre comedy sketches... Come back Del Amitri, come back The Rutles! Hell, come back Momus circa 'Folktronic'! Anything rather than this 'album of the decade'.

I once suggested that 'this year's irony is next year's sincerity'. But who wants to hang around to hear those knowing post-modern genre winks we messed with last decade turning from hick-ironic to slick-moronic? Irony is interesting while it's ambivalent, it's fuzzy, it's undecided, it's in crisis, it's vulnerable, it's conflicted. When it hardens into comedy and routine, when it becomes non-negotiable and invulnerable, it's simply unbearable, like being stuck in a room with a bunch of tall economics graduates who decided to do comedy instead.

The whole sound of this record is dismal. Those horrible stadium drums, the cheesy quiz show organ skits, the silly voices, the session musician power chords, the clever-clogs calculatedness and certainty of it all... There isn't a single quirk or mistake, no crack for light or water or soul to get in through. No strangeness, no beauty, no style, nothing but The Concept.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

*checks watch* 200 messages by midnight?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, de gustibus nil disputandum est.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Concepts on their own and on record sound pretty gd to me.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus, in another attempt to be the wittiest guy in the room, makes a post in which he criticizes an intentionally imperfect album for being too perfect, and calls it a comedy album in the most humorless prose known to man. Dude, seriously, Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

And yet I'm sounding like I'm really wanting to get involved in this as a debate when I don't, not really. I suspect I'm going to like the Charlie Robison even more than this, and then B&R will only be my #3 country record of the year. Carry on, y'all, I'll look at this thread in a couple of days and have a nice laugh.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I was serious about Men Without Hats, Rednex and Ten Pole Tudor. Conceptual novelty records those may be, but there's some kind of eccentricity or mystery to them. Perhaps unintentionally, they crackle with pathos and soul. Is it because Rednex is sung by non-English speakers, or because they're all from the past? Is that why they somehow fail to be as shoddy and calculated as they planned to be, as exploitative and disposable? Big and Rich don't fail at that. They hit their target and achieve their goal. It's for this reason -- their awful efficiency -- that The Doopees and Flat Eric tower over them.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:06 (nineteen years ago) link

"their awful efficiency"...Momus, you produce j-pop and work for vice, if you ever had any credibility it is now-----

"You play nice with your cousin Nick! He doesn't come over very often, and he's very sensitive!"

"Sorry, mom."

Anyway, whatevs dood.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Personally I consider the credibility of the people liking this record instantly extinguished. I am completely baffled. The only argument I can see in the record's favour is some kind of political one -- 'at least this is better than those racist, homophobic country records we're used to'. Well, no it's not.

I guess the crux and nub of things is that my whole aesthetic is based on an aesthetics of strangeness and danger, weird beauty, error and complexity. And certain people here -- Mr Eddy, perhaps -- seem to applaud an aesthetic of certainty and confidence and correctness. I think they may be embracing that partly because they just like confidence for its own sake, but partly because they've constructed a mainstream listener -- a radio listener -- who requires a high degree of certainty, and they want to hear music that has a chance of reaching and influencing that notional listener, who isn't a sophisticate, can't tolerate much strangeness or danger, but is nevertheless able to be coaxed away from the completely banal to something slightly more nuanced. That's how I explain this atrocity of taste, to myself.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

(This is the point at which I'm attacked as arrogant and pretentious for speaking on behalf of myself and nobody else, and Mr Eddy to be defended as humble and downright downhome for speaking on behalf of ordinary folks up and down the country.)

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

if it makes you feel any better, Momus, I still like Hayzie Fantayzie and Wide Boy Awake more then Big & Rich, but I understand why you wouldn't like it. I can understand why LOTS of people wouldn't like it. I for one, love the shamelessness of it. Sometimes shame and the cloak of darkness makes for great music, but not all the time. It is corn/camp on a massive and glorious scale. No apologies. No holding back. I think they should collaborate with the Pet Shop Boys.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Schoenberg, trying to convince classical music traditionalists to embrace serialism, told them 'Don't you see, this will ensure the dominance of German classical music for centuries!' Big and Rich are 'busting out of' C&W's conventions only to ensure their survival.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

haha - that "certain people - mr. _____ perhaps" trick to put words in your opponents mouths is goptrixx 101. you can take the momus outta crawford but you can't take the crawford outta momus.

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

anyhow people that hate country music hating a country music album shocker (momus what are your ten fave country lps this year then?).

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I like Momus's "humorless prose."

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link

seriously carlin and currie on country is like hannity and o'reilly on hip-hop. only you can at least suspect hannity and o'reilly know someone who listens to what they're talking about (even if it's just their landscape crew).

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

(The correct Schoenberg quote is: "I have today made a discovery which will ensure the supremacy of German music for the next hundred years".)

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I could give a flying frig for these imaginary "ordinary folks" Momus dreamed up; I've never once liked a record just because ordinary folks liked it; where did he get that delusion? (Never once *disliked* one because alleged ordinary folks liked it either, of course, and I could give even less of a frig for har har "sophisticates" {that was a joke, right?} but I won't go into that anymore as I am in a good mood today.) I love BOTH Red Nex albums (I compared B&R's "Real World" to them in my Voice review); also like the one Tenpole Tudor and one Men Without Hats song I remember, though Big & Rich blow them both away on hooks or rhythm or vocals or words alone. (Beck, who I also in passing compared B&R to above, would seem to have his good points and his bad points.) And Momus, I didn't find your post (well, at least your first one, before your got all pretentious and arrogant and, well I gotta say it, really really dumb) humorless at all; I kinda thought it was cute. But man, you are stone deaf to the core. And if I'm not mistaken, plenty of stuff you find "dangerous" and "strange," um, isn't.

xposts

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:51 (nineteen years ago) link

And yeah, Scott is right -- Big and Rich probably do not have any tracks as awesome as "Shiny Shiny," I admit it. (Maybe not as great as "John Wayne is Big Leggy", too; I forget what that one sounds like. And probably not as great as "I Eat Cannibals" for that matter, but that is Total Coeleo so maybe they don't count, I'm not sure.)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

If a southern drawl is the closest we now have to a new Peter Sellers-type strangled Strangelove comedy accent, we have to imagine Big and Rich sitting there in the studio saying to each other the equivalent of 'Ve haff today made ze hybrid vich vill enshuuuah ze zupremacy of Country and Vestern musick for ze next hundred years!'

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link


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