The Thread Where We List The People Who Put Kanye As Their Token Rap Album on an indiecentric top 10 2004 list

online rap purists in late 2004 = kanye is a coon and i will punch him the face

the worm turned like a motherfucker on kanye with a lot of heads. limited research states that ghost and madvillain were tops for most people, but kanye made very few lists when polled at boards and shit.

then again..

white rock crit + non-violent, accessible black rap = pazz and jop

i liked it when it first dropped, but it went from maybe five or six songs i liked a lot to me just ripping 'spaceship' and giving the disc to my 10 year old sister for christmas.

also, i was pretty shocked by the lack of rap on my list. i had m.i.a, the streets and dizzee, none of which are trad-rap. also had madvillain, rjd2 and ghost. john smith and masta ace would've gotten in if i though they had a chance to make it in pazz and jop. which is weird, considering i heard maybe 60-70 rap albums this year.

whatever, most would call this year pretty light for solid rap albums. i thought kanye was gonna be popular with indie folks when i first heard his tape drops in 2002 but not quite to this extent.

remove the word "than you" and yes. This is soooo not about me. I'm Budgie Klos! My time will come.

but his stuff's composed,
and I think his guest rapping
is just not as tight

urban legend's GREAT
not spotty at all to me;
I am a big fan

TS: rockism v. racism

white rock crit + non-violent, accessible white rock = pazz and jop (which has top-40'd a go-go comp, Eric B & Rakim, BDP, Ice-T, NWA, Dre (3x), Cube (3x), Warren G, Nas, Gang Starr, Biggie (2x), Jay-Z (3x), The Wu, Raekwon, Ghostface, ODB (2x), Outkast (3x), Cannibal Ox, The Coup, Scarface, Dizzee, and 50)

sure, you can call most or all of those 'accessible', but if you do, what makes any other hiphop un-accessible?

Also, in light of all the ILM praise for the Times rockism piece, isn't complaining about token rap-album representation on year-end lists kinda moot, in that it's all supposed to be about singles and iPod shuffles anyway?

Non-hiphop black artists to make the top 5 since 1986: Robert Cray, Prince, Tracy Chapman, Neville Brothers, Living Colour.

*other than that Kanye is a fucking lock.

5 is a convenient number. expand it by 1 and you get D'Angelo and the half-black Was (Not Was), 1 more Badu, two more still Soul II Soul and Jill Scott, and another on to The Indestructible Beat of Soweto. but anyway, i'm not sure why i'm arguing because i don't understand the point in the first place.

why are you changing the subject? does anyone read RS anymore?

You don't think critics are essentially creating a canon on p&J?

no

what should-be-canonical hiphop artists are being oppressed by rock-crit's indie-nerd preference's extension to black music?

Who reads Vibe?

canonized music certainly doesn't reflect popular taste...
so please explain to me where this canon is constructed, if not by critics.

And I could name you a hundred hip-hop artists releasing music the same year as arrested development was dominating PnJ that deserved more coverage.

Bunnybrains - Box The Bunny

NEPOTISM

but actually, among most mainstream rap fans Kanye would easily be the concensus choice for album of the year (compared to 2003, where Outkast would have faced pretty stiff competition from 50 Cent and maybe Jay-Z).

I don't think Graham does any rapping on the record. Here's my blurb review on Final Battle (way down at the bottom): http://www.citypaper.com/special/story.asp?id=9448

the audience. you're telling me RS' 500 greatest isn't a kiss to its readership?

And I could name you a hundred hip-hop artists releasing music the same year as arrested development was dominating PnJ that deserved more coverage.

of course. why would you assume i would think otherwise. but, so? does anyone listen to them today? no. i.e. P&J /= canon.

That, or, because they(me/us) have to pay for a lot of their stuff they're going for the "safe bets", stuff which is already critically/commercially proven - which just speeds up the canonising process.

It amazes me that despite all the blather here in the US about multiculturalism and diversity, there are still editors at various general interest publications who make little effort to include submissions on a wide variety of musical genres. Multiple contributions are a way to avoid tokenism. Although as others have said, isn't one token pick better than none.

if he thinks one-tenth of those folks are paying for anything but blank CD-Rs he's even crazier than I already think he is. (hi Bob!)

Didn't Chuck Eddy write on ILM last year that he's never downloaded anything?

if you're going to have a token rap album, kanye is not a retarded choice. at the same time, a lot of these lists call it the best in its genre this year, a statement that suggests said reviewer has heard a portion of the rap released this year that justifies such an assertion, and that's what i think the problem is. in such a large sample of reviewers, there would be more diversity if they had been exposed to a diverse selection of rap.
kanye interview in rs=weird. john mayer?

my goal this year is to listen to more radio/video channels. even the weird digital radio channels that come with my cable t.v. i've been thinking about looking into one of those satellite radio things to plug into the stereo. i've let myself get too far removed from the popworld and the newsounds out there. I've never been so out of it in my life.

well, was there? Don't leave us hanging!

http://www.kozyshack.com/index.asp

..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..."

Uh what! this fellow was my lecturer last term! "Pop And The Press" I recommended ILM to him and now and now oh dear, well he did say he had checked ILM out but was confused more than anything.

Not sure if that list counts as "indiecentric" -- I'll let the ILM gestapo make that call. I was totally going to launch a premptive strike re:tokenism for the Kanye and Lynn picks in my P&J comments, but I was too busy having a baby to write comments. (little Rosie's into doo-wop, Clem Snide, and Orchestra Baobob so far)

Not that it matters, but I was an active fan of hip-hop and country before I'd ever even HEARD anything that could be considered indie/alt/punk/whatever and the first rock-crit I ever wrote for pay was largely about those two genres. I also didn't vote for Outkast last year and think that Soloman Burke record was borderline unlistenable. But those are the 10 best records I heard last year. I think the Lynn record is great, in large part because of Jack White's production (I didn't vote for Elephant last year either)and I doubt it's that foreign to mainstream country fans since the videos for "Miss Being Mrs" and "Portland, Oregon" have both been in heavy rotation on CMT.

Also for the record: Devin the Dude, Dizzee, and Madvillain/MF Doom were honorable mentions and I suspect I could be the only person to vote for "Remember When" by Alan Jackson in PnJ.

I think it's revealing that there aren't many suggestions on this thread about non-token rap records that people should be voting for. It's seemed like a pretty weak year for hip-hop albums to me, but that might be a reflection of what I get in the mail and what I've spent my steadily decreasing spare change on. ("Rubberband Man" just missed my singles list, but I've never heard a full T.I. album)

Smartest thing I've read on this thread: Michael Daddino's suggestion that the pop energy in mainstream country of late has made more new converts that crits latching onto a Chuck Eddy suggestion.

Most interesting but questionable: Blount on "Jesus Walks" -- somehow I think the role of Christianity in black America is a lot more complex than all that.