let's discuss New Order's 'Republic'

um, I kind of think everything they did sounded cobbled together up until Technique

Nah. They've all said repeatedly in interviews that Technique marked the first time they worked in shifts. Before they actually played live.

(not at all suggesting the strength of the music reflects this)

I think i read there was a premix of Republic. Guess Steven Hague had a big role in creating the album, not just producing and mixing.

Yeah – he gets co-writing credit on the bulk of the material.

The artwork for this album and singles is my least favorite of any New Order era.

mm Me Company? i wonder who that was. either way the vibe was stock-photos-from-the-world-of-advertising-that-actually-aren't-real-stock-photos. Saville would have seen all that stuff as Erasure were huge at the time. posters, tv ads, poster campaigns everywhere. Blur's 'Great Escape' era also did the same kind of thing.

x-post I think the relative lack of Hook is also Hague's fault. Supposedly he hated his bass tone.

You know, I've never really scoured the New Order credits (not that there's a lot of information there). Is the band generally credited as an entity? How often are there obviously credited co-writers? I suppose I always though of each producer (name producer, at least) as a tacit ghost writer. Esp. '90s New Order and beyond, the arrangements and songs are so much more ... sophisticated, I suppose, than prime New Order. Not better, mind, just all around slicker. They sound less like the product of a band and more like the product of studio.

Seriously, though, is there any other major band short of the Velvet Underground where the behind the scenes machinery is more mysterious? Like, who does what, who plays what, how much, that sort of thing?

Every album b/w PCL and Technique bears the mysterious "written and produced by New Order" credit. They're pretty good at acknowledging co-writer and co-producers (Arthur Baker, Robie, Stephen Hague).

As far as who plays what: twenty years ago I assumed the guitar parts were split pretty evenly between Bernard and Gillian. But every live clip I've seen has shown how limited Gillian's playing is (she holds it as if she's looking at it for the first time).

At the same time, there sometimes seem to be (uncredited?) backing vox, and the guitar on occasion seems above Barney's abilities as well. I'd love to see some fly on the wall clip of them working (Perfect Kiss video sort of does this, but it still gives no idea where the song actually came from). Do any of them do the programming, or do they farm that out, too?

The primitiveness of the early recordings speaks to the DIY nature of their programming. Morris and Sumner have gone on record explaining how they built their own sequencers.

If their solo careers and interviews are any indication, NO comprises three songwriting entities (Sumner, Hooky, and the Other Two). Bernard writes all the lyrics.

Their mystery is their charm. I love how any one of the three guys could have sung on "Ceremony."

Steve Morris and Barney did most of the programming, from what I understand. Morris was quite a computer enthusiast, and Sumner was pretty interested in the electronic side of the band from an early stage.

Who was me company (the Chorus designer/s) anyway?

er, a design company. had links to One Little Indian, still do Bjork's stuff to this day AFAIK

I went to the hotel that's the setting of the "World" video today, did the walk from the stairs to the beach into the hotel & to the right to the stairs...maybe the goofiest rock pilgrimage ever? But it was gorgeous. I also took a boat ride & got the view from the sea as at the start of the video.

can you feel it?

is the place still in black and white or have they finally updated the environs to color?

euler i salute you

It was strange to see it in color! There were lots of people taking photos of the main door but I doubt anyone else was there because of NO---prob film festival things take place at that door? I confess I know nothing about the festival; I went to Cannes today pretty much only because of this video, & Elton John's "I'm Still Standing" (and I was in the neighborhood already).

You were once the main attraction
But all that's in the apst

the past too

Just wanted to say that just because someone "looks as if they are holding a guitar for the first time" does not mean that they *sound* as if they are holding a guitar for the first time.

And to call Gilbert's guitar playing "limited" in a band where Bernard Sumner is a guitarist takes some nerve. The whole thing of why New Order *work* is the ability to do amazing and unbelievably lovely things, with some very "limited" materials.

I pretty much haven't listened to this album since it came out (mostly because I had it on cassette) but I listened to it *so much* when it was released, that I wonder if it has been coded specifically to that time and place of where I was living and where I was at when it was released. Like, if I listen to this record, am I going to instantly smell the New Town Sewer and taste the odd slightly metallic aftertaste of lithium tablets. I do wonder, because I don't really remember much beyond Regret. (Which is so world-breakingly huge and definitely Imperial Phase New Order that it overshadows everything else in its path.)

(Yay! Another thread for me and Alfred to argue about New Order. This is my all-time favourite aspect of ILM. Also, Daniel Kessler remains hotter than Ezra Eyelash-face whatever his name is. So there.)

Republic is a great album. I can listen to it start to finish and I can't say that for many of their albums. Lyrically it's one of Bernard's best efforts. The demise of Factory and the Hacienda provided enough material for him to write about.

Yeah, I felt kinda cheated when it came out (for being too synth-heavy and Hooky-less, which I all interpreted as NO "selling out" - lol) but the years have been very kind to this album, surprisingly. It captures a late summer elegiac feeling, which these days is how I remember my teenage years.

I like this album better than the comeback.

Next comeback, I should say. Get Ready, which has a couple of my least fave NO songs of all time on it.

Oh! I went looking for Get Ready and discovered that, mysteriously, I *do* seem to own this album (second hand CD from Amoeba? When did that happen?)

Up as far as Young Offender, it is way, way better than I have recently given it credit for being.

I think I was just traumatised by Baywatch or something.

so playing this last week, I'm starting to think this is actually one of their best - "Liar" and "Chemical" are the only throwaways.
And for all the talk of Technique and Ibiza, this to me is the real balearic NO deal. That late-summer sunset vibe is all over the album.

oh damn, said exactly the same thing two months ago :(

The whole thing of why New Order *work* is the ability to do amazing and unbelievably lovely things, with some very "limited" materials.
― Branwell Bell, Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:17 PM (1 year ago)

I love this album.

Underrated album. I even like the pretty final track.

I agree. Great album. Each of the singles has at least 1 great remix as well. I would love to hear the tapes Steve, Gillian, and Peter worked on without Bernard to see if they are as good and different sounding as PH claims. You would imagine if PH had written a killer bassline, that Stephen Hague would have had the sense to use it.

t's a crisis I know
At the end of the show
People change but we don't falter
'Cause we know love is real
This is no place to shiver
So get up off the grass
You were once the main attraction
But all that's in the past

I went to the Peter Saville exhibition in 2002 in Manchester and they had a whiteboard from New Order’s studio with the titles, working titles, and rejected ideas for Republic scribbled on in red and blue marker. It’s one of the really cool bits of the show that stuck in my mind. I wish I’d taken a photo.

They've been performing "Times Change" lately.

I love "Regret" so much it's hard to get past it

I was a short fuse
Burning all the time
You were a complete stranger
Now you are mine

I would like a place I can call my own
Have a conversation on my telephone
Wake up everyday, that would be a start
I would not complain about my wounded heart

also it reminds me of the New Order guitar sound of Movement and 1981-1982 that I fell in love with

"Regret", "Ruined In A Day" and "Spooky" are the only songs off of this I ever listen to; I should change that

"Regret" is a perfect song, though

Everyone Everywhere, Times Change, and Avalanche are also great!

"Everyone Everywhere" is top ten NO for me.

Regret, Ruined in a Day, Spooky, Everyone Everywhere, Young Offender, Times Change, Special - apart from a couple of duds (Chemical, Liar), they're all classics.
It sure didn't feel like that when it came out, but it's one of my favorites NO albums these days.

"Regret" is a perfect song, though

Quite.

It sure didn't feel like that when it came out, but it's one of my favorites NO albums these days.

It doesn't/didn't fit the '90s' stereotypes in our heads even then. As a result, it's weirdly timeless.

I remember clearly that it got VERY lukewarm reviews from the NME and the Maker at the time (summer 1993). Regret and World are flawless tracks though.

It got better reviews stateside than in the UK, as if American critics finally got NO just, uh, before they fell apart.

The band's played "Times Change" and "World" in their last couple shows. I understand the veil of trauma through which they view the album, but it's a sturdy collection; they may have finally realized it too.

i've got nothing particularly rivetting to say about them but 'world' and 'spooky' are easily my favourite songs on this

My god I love this song and performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pc0PNdqElA

first time I was disappointed by New Order

You must have missed "Shellshock."

thank you thread, "Regret" is blazing chills thru my body now