ok this is the best thing ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPLNK3mn7zE
― jerkstore cowboy (Pillbox), Monday, 13 December 2010 19:56 (thirteen years ago) link
don't like the new EP much myself, too chiptunes / drill & bass for my taste
― moonship journey to baja, Monday, 13 December 2010 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link
what do you know, i agree! too squarepusher, i think i only listened to it once.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Monday, 13 December 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
if i'm going to listen to chiptunes i'd rather listen to rustie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHAXsJHPuw
― moonship journey to baja, Monday, 13 December 2010 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link
ok this is the best thing ever - fyi song is ok, I was mostly referring to the video.
― jerkstore cowboy (Pillbox), Monday, 13 December 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
from his tweets, i'm going to guess this guy wasn't nominated for a grammy this year
flyinglotus Flying Lotus Wonder if i have any chance in hell getting a grammy nomination this week. If I ever had a shot, this is the year./29 Nov ________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus BT, Chemical Brothers, Groove Armada??? are you serious??Grammys are a joke. FUCK YOU./2 Dec________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys FUCK YOU/2 Dec________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys You are jokes/2 Dec________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys PussyAssNotknowingShitaboutREALmusicBitchMadeMotherfuckers/2 Dec________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys you better hope I don't get a ticket to the party bitch/2 Dec________________________________flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys suck a donkey dick/2 Dec
________________________________
flyinglotus Flying Lotus BT, Chemical Brothers, Groove Armada??? are you serious??Grammys are a joke. FUCK YOU./2 Dec
flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys FUCK YOU/2 Dec
flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys You are jokes/2 Dec
flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys PussyAssNotknowingShitaboutREALmusicBitchMadeMotherfuckers/2 Dec
flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys you better hope I don't get a ticket to the party bitch/2 Dec
flyinglotus Flying Lotus @thegrammys suck a donkey dick/2 Dec
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 31 December 2010 00:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I want to like this, I really do, but it's squished to fuck and pretty much unlistenable to me.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 06:24 (thirteen years ago) link
the new one or cosmogramma?
cosmogramma is in my year top 10 but i think the new EP is pretty hard to listen to
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 31 December 2010 12:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Cosmogramma.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link
what do you mean squished to fuck?
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 31 December 2010 14:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Compressed. It's loud; all the instruments and elements in the mix are squished together and competing for attention, and it hurts my ears / head to try and listen to it.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 14:28 (thirteen years ago) link
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screenshot2010-12-31at143040.png
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 14:32 (thirteen years ago) link
the intro to the first song is offputting to me. i'm learning to get beyond it, but the early cuts remind me of breakbeat, which always hurts my ears. i do like the jazzy progressions and flourishes i hear in some songs (e.g., pickled!).
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 31 December 2010 14:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Monster by Kanye:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screenshot2010-12-31at143429.png
Dance Yrself Clean by LCD (bot sure why only 1 channel??):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screenshot2010-12-31at143500.png
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 14:36 (thirteen years ago) link
how do you feel about sidechain compression?
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, 31 December 2010 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
What's that?
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Ah right, one band at a time. I feel the same way as I do about multiband and dynamic range compression, and compression on individual instruments / tracks etc etc etc. Which is that I am not against it per se, at all; I'm against records that come out of the other end sounding horrible. Any recording technique if used sympathetically can be awesome and make a record better. Equally, I think we're also at a point where relatively uncompressed (in all sense), naturally-recorded records now sound really fucking weird, leftfield, psychedelic, and experimental. And Sleigh Bells sound like Girls Aloud.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 19:11 (thirteen years ago) link
My ears hurt just looking at that Monster waveform.
Fwiw, I've enjoyed Cosmogramma a lot this year, but the compression issue is probably the reason why I never loved it and found it difficult to listen to regularly. I'm certain that its feel sound-wise contributed to its labeling as a 'difficult' or slept-on record amongst critics.
― Davek (davek_00), Friday, 31 December 2010 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Aye; I don't think it would be at all difficult if it was better mastered. I think it'd be awesome. As for his spat on Twitter, maybe he'd have got a Grammy.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 31 December 2010 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
I remember someone complaining about FlyLo's set at Sonar being compressed to fuck, so maybe it's a production and not a mastering issue?
But then I don't really understand the distinction between the two for electronic music so uh
― just woke up (lukas), Friday, 31 December 2010 23:01 (thirteen years ago) link
otm
― slouching, unshaven, thick-necked, unstylish, pig-eyed (ilxor), Friday, 31 December 2010 23:14 (thirteen years ago) link
holy crap you guys sound like grown ups
"great googly moogly! this new-fangled racket hurts my ears!"
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 31 December 2010 23:30 (thirteen years ago) link
also "reminds me of breakbeat" FTW
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 31 December 2010 23:31 (thirteen years ago) link
sadly, i am a grown-up.
lots of times i wish it were otherwise.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 31 December 2010 23:47 (thirteen years ago) link
now, to ring in the new year, i will listen to dan fogelburg's old lang syne on repeat.
love that song to bits. "met my old lover at the grocery store . . . . "
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 31 December 2010 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
anyhoo i am going to listen to three kenny burell LPs on blue note and THEN the flying lotus turned up super loud and get back to you on whether i succeeded in inducing a headache.
i feel like there are many layers to the sound and a great deal of implied space anyway in the beats, so i'm not sure what exactly's lost w/ the over-compression here that isn't made up for in other regards. or maybe it's just an aesthetic choice you don't like?
― moonship journey to baja, Friday, 31 December 2010 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
okay, i'm going to give cosmogramma another go.
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 31 December 2010 23:51 (thirteen years ago) link
Scik has major dislike for extreme compression in recordings. I know that and I hardly follow his every post.
― _Rudipherous_, Friday, 31 December 2010 23:53 (thirteen years ago) link
a lot of this music makes heavy use of sidechain compression, as an effect. usually the kick is sidechained to another element of the track (the bass, a vocal, anything or everything) so that it pushes it out of the way on every hit. too much of it can make you feel kind of seasick when listening...i'm just wondering if that's what you're hearing instead of mastering compression.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Saturday, 1 January 2011 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
(i haven't listened to cosmogramma in awhile so i don't remember how compressed it is or how sidechain-y, but the Teebs album is a good example of too much sidechaining for my taste)
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Saturday, 1 January 2011 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
yes Nick you should read up on sidechain compression -- it's not one band at a time, it's creatively applied by the artists at the mix stage. Jordan's describes it well and you know what it is, it's the sucking sound where the kick or snare or loud vocal hits seem to smack the rest of the mix out of the way for a second and then the mix inflates back up in the wake of it.
The technique also reduces dynamic range & allows for hotter mastering, which is why you hate it. But that's a taste thing and it's a world apart from your complaints about remastering -- people like the Daft Punk sound and you need to start distinguishing your argument against music ruined at the mastering stage and home producers like Flying Lotus who know what they're doing, even if it's not to your taste
I think I mentioned this before, but a year ago my dad, who has not listened to anything but classical radio for years, said that he finally figured out why he couldn't listen to the Beatles anymore, it was because their music had no dynamic range
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 1 January 2011 00:43 (thirteen years ago) link
then the mix inflates back up in the wake of it.
& not to go on about this too much, but sidechaining is what gives this record / Daft Punk their sense of rhythm, from pounding ones to lurchy swooping -- sidechaining is being used to compose the beats, it's integral. and even though the dynamic range is flat, it really churns the elements in the mix so it does drive the energy level higher
for the record I'm in the camp that's pretty grateful for your article. as late as 2006 I still heard people going on about how complaints about overcompression were just pro sound myopic whining and consumers didn't care -- but that's exactly why you've got to distinguish between older music that's being ruined and newer music that's living in it
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 1 January 2011 00:53 (thirteen years ago) link
I agree with Scik. Album is way too compressed to be truly enjoyable. It has no dimensions, no levels... you can't really separate the sounds in your head. It's the aural equivalent of a pixelated photograph.
― Moka, Saturday, 1 January 2011 03:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Jordan, Milton: yes, now you describe it I recognise it. Not seen it referred to as side-chaining before, even when I was researching way back when, I don't think. Predictably, I don't like it! Aesthetic mixing choice by the artist or not, it's an effect that I find really unpleasant.
I'm currently "remastering" my old article for my blog, so I'll look into this further.
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 1 January 2011 07:45 (thirteen years ago) link
It is also sometimes referred to as "ducking" because the overall mix ducks behind the kick drum.
― Moodles, Saturday, 1 January 2011 08:38 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm kind of lost in the talk of compression and side-chaining, but I kind of get the gist. Anyone care for to give me a quick primer on this and what I'm supposed to see (and be aghast at) in those spectral images?
― rihanna rennavated my dick (rennavate), Saturday, 1 January 2011 10:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Lack of space, basically.
The Kanye's the worst because the waveform is clipped (i.e. flattened) at top & bottom; this means that sound has literally been cut out of the music in order to make it louder. Played on laptop speakers you probably wouldn't notice. On a good stereo it sounds like the edges of the sounds, instruments, vocals, etc have been chopped off - things are less distinguishable from each other, less sharp, and you get a weird digital hollowness sound where it vanishes.
There's barely any clipping in the Flying Lotus, but it is loud pretty much all the way through, which is going to make it tiring and lacking in excitement - it's like being shouted at rather than spoken to. What you can't see from the waveform is the sidechaining / inflating, which is audible as elements moving out of the way of, say, a kick drum, in the mix, when the kick drum hits. This, to me, just sounds really weird and artificial and I don't like it. (I don't much care for Daft Punk, as it happens.)
The LCD has plenty of space, plenty of definition, and lots of dynamic movements - quiet bits and loud bits. Think Pixies. It's exciting!
― Captain Ostensible (Scik Mouthy), Saturday, 1 January 2011 10:49 (thirteen years ago) link
perhaps you would prefer The producer known as ACTRESS and his r&b concrète
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 1 January 2011 19:00 (thirteen years ago) link
i get the compression-aversion, but does it really ruin your enjoyment -- across the board -- of all albums you would otherwise enjoy?
does the actress album have more space and depth? it's a disc i admire more than i enjoy.
― Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 1 January 2011 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link
i can totally see where scik is coming from on this one tbh. this record is really hard to listen to for extended periods bcuz of how in your face the sound of it is. its not 'oooh its so loud im old' its just that it has no dynamic range which means its loud in a flatline way instead of a way that makes use of contrasting volumes.
when he describes it as shouting vs talking its a lil unfair. its more like imagining someone talking with the exact same volume & tonality on every word, so their sentences have no rise & fall ... its all just flatline.
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Saturday, 1 January 2011 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, you can say 'thats the point' all you want but its pretty offputting imo
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Saturday, 1 January 2011 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
i put up w/ mixtapes w/ shoddy mastering too but i also scrounge the internet for CDQs when i can find them for that reason
scik, thanks for the information. How does one read the spectrals? I think I know where it shows the space and compression, but what shows that it's loud -- the fact it stretches out far?
― rihanna rennavated my dick (rennavate), Sunday, 2 January 2011 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Rennavate, read this pronto http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm
― Davek (davek_00), Sunday, 2 January 2011 01:25 (thirteen years ago) link
hey this is good album
― tears of a self-clowning oven (The Reverend), Sunday, 2 January 2011 08:40 (thirteen years ago) link
Yes it is.
― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 January 2011 15:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Still really want to like this, but find it so bloody odd to listen to. Asked Graham Sutton re; side-chaining and just blogged his response and my understanding of it in relation to this.
http://sickmouthy.com/2011/03/14/a-brief-history-of-side-chaining/
― lol sickmouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 14 March 2011 19:53 (thirteen years ago) link
i completely disagree that flylo does it for loudness reasons. to me it's more of a musical/rhythmic thing...the point isn't just to make sure the kick is super loud, it's also to create some ebb & flow movement in the other parts. in some tracks the groove is constructed around the sidechaining, so it's hard to separate one from the other.
― adult music person (Jordan), Monday, 14 March 2011 20:01 (thirteen years ago) link
That may be so, but for me it just destroys something like MmmHmm; I can't ride the bassline cos it keeps vanishing, I'm trying to follow it and I'm having it pulled away like jerking a string from a kitten; my brain literally can't keep up and I get a headache. Also, many tracks (especially the first 3 or 4) end up being MEGA loud start-to-finish. I think the grooves would be better if it wasn't sidechained and pumping at me.
― lol sickmouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 14 March 2011 20:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Do The Astral Plane would be fucking amazing if I could hear every note on that trumpet and all of the clicks on that percussion track. But they keep vanishing because of the fucking kick.
― lol sickmouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 14 March 2011 20:09 (thirteen years ago) link