lol, yes I know I am weird
It's more... they both were pushed by their labels as solo artists, Kelis got a moderate amt of success and Keri... didn't. Then both started popping up on the hooks of hip-hop singles, and then came back with more solo joints that were better accepted, only Kelis was more successful... and both definitely used hypersexuality as a hook.
So it's not really so much that they are the same type of artist as I see similar career trajectories, only Kelis is interesting and Keri is boring.
― "Kiss Players♥" (DJP), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 15:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Keri's first album went gold and had two big top 20 hits and Kelis's debut didn't, and both did hooks on hit songs before properly launching their solo careers, so i don't really follow.
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:06 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean really Keri's first album sold about as well in 2009 as Kelis's biggest album did in 2003, which given the sales slump means she's been more successful overall, even if she's probably not as famous and definitely doesn't have a song entrenched in pop culture like "Milkshake"
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:08 (thirteen years ago) link
looking at the dates, it looks like "Caught Out There" was 6 weeks after "Got Your Money" and I thought it was the other way around
None of which changes my core point, which is Keri Hilson bores me
― "Kiss Players♥" (DJP), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:10 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah "boring" is not at all an outlandish thing to tag her with. that's kinda why the Kelis comparison confused me.
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:13 (thirteen years ago) link
unfortunately "Keri Hilson = Ashanti" doesn't work either, but probably makes more sense
― "Kiss Players♥" (DJP), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:14 (thirteen years ago) link
Keri Hilson = Kelly Rowland
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:16 (thirteen years ago) link
lol, the boring Kelly Rowland
And I LIKE Kelly!
― "Kiss Players♥" (DJP), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm in the un-vocal minority that thinks "Lay It Down" is kind of silly and overblown; though it's grown on me a bit since it's been receiving crazy radio play here for months. Still think "Don't Stop" is the much better 2010 Lloyd song.
― Evan R, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16:26 (thirteen years ago) link
so i can work it, work itWORK IT, WORK IT
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 17:45 (thirteen years ago) link
i also don't get the bfd about "lay it down" -- i don't think lloyd's verse works on that at all
― *plop*timist (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 18:56 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^^hates r&b
― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:18 AM (9 hours ago)
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:13 (thirteen years ago) link
what do you mean his "verse"
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:14 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry, i'm pretty hungover -- i meant his voice
― *plop*timist (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
haha how do you drunkenly slur your words while typing
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link
ha i was just saying that 33 mins ago i wasn't necessarily "all there" idk
also i never proofread short posts (not on policy, just never think of it) which is why like 5% of all my posts are me correcting shit that i mistyped
― *plop*timist (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
ship do you dig "lay it down"?
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i love lay it down -- chorus is irresistable -- i can understand why lloyd fans would want something more lloyd-y but its sort of 'lloyd takes off his sunglasses' in song form
― *plop*ism rules (deej), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:36 (thirteen years ago) link
it's weirding me out that Lloyd's "Lay It Down" has been in the top 10 of the R&B chart for weeks and iirc has been talked about here as a popular song, but i haven't heard it on the radio once yet
Al, about how many of your Top 50 singles songs got decent radio play in Baltimore? So many of the one's you've listed so far I've barely heard on Milwaukee radio. It makes me wonder how big the regional differences are in radio play.
― Evan R, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link
also jeez jordan how are you hung over at 130 pm - don't you have finals?
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link
well i have a short paper to write by tomorrow -- i never party on the weekdays but my best bro was up here so we got wasted & played video games
― *plop*timist (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 15 December 2010 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
― Evan R, Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:39 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i'd say about 40 of them are things i heard on the radio regularly or at least more than a couple times...the rest are either not in a radio format i listen to regularly and/or i was exposed to from seeing the video a lot on MTV Jams or VH1 or something.
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 20:14 (thirteen years ago) link
or kevin k annoyed you about it enough until you came around to it
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 15 December 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
lol "breaking point" is one of the handful that i've heard like a handful of times and all but one where when i pulled it up on youtube.
― some dude, Wednesday, 15 December 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Holy crap! This Keri Hilson album is awful!
― Evan R, Monday, 20 December 2010 21:28 (thirteen years ago) link
pretty girl rock is pretty good
― dayo, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 02:46 (thirteen years ago) link
mostly for that always building never resolving piano line
― forksclovetofu, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 03:48 (thirteen years ago) link
not really
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 07:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm not sure what more anyone would think a keri hilson would be like, but it really exceeded my expectations - obv not a masterpiece or anything, this is k.hilson after all, but several tracks that surprised me, in a good way. "pretty girl rock" and "the way you love me" are great singles, this was probably my favourite cut though - just v pretty and emotional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ejbUMRY2t4
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 08:01 (thirteen years ago) link
http://thequietus.com/articles/05494-cassie-the-dream-janelle-monae-jazmine-sullivan-ciara
Great work, Lex.
― Andy K, Friday, 24 December 2010 23:18 (thirteen years ago) link
yah agreed reblarged that on tumblr
― lyrics is weak ... like clock radio similes (deej), Saturday, 25 December 2010 07:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Thanks for that article Andy K. I have only recently come to RnB after a year of listening to The Dream's discography. I've just been tapping the genre for its inherent beauty that has all but eluded me in prior years. I really like this article, it kind of gives validation to my love, because none of my friends want to move beyond The Dream, and some of these songs might sway them.
I wish I could convey the weight of my sudden infatuation with RnB. Like I would absolutely love to be in The Dream or Stargate's shoes, making radio hits and producing dope shit for pretty black girls and boys to sing.
Also, has Chris Brown's child-like voice been discussed? After listening to Deuces and Yo Excuse Me Miss, it sounds like he never lost the boyish effects in his voice. For example, on Deuces, he sings, "Better, better, better," with a soft, almost imperceptible 'L' at the end of the word, "Betterl"... Ha, maybe not, but does anyone else hear it? I feel like it's the main reason I keep coming back to him. I love it.
― Captain Ahab, Saturday, 25 December 2010 08:35 (thirteen years ago) link
thx guys! felt dissatisfied when i filed but only cuz it inevitably felt incomplete, also i couldn't think of a single way to actually tie the kelis paragraph (originally written in august) into the rest of it before passing out.
merry xmas r&bros, here's kellz singing the actual words "this is a christmas remix" - secretly one of the highlights of his new one for me - this song has been admitted to the elite membership of "xmas songs lex loves", which previously consisted entirely of "all i want for xmas is you" and "8 days of xmas"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXQnRhUDJ3c
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Saturday, 25 December 2010 09:31 (thirteen years ago) link
in the album version he sings "i'm just a snowman / lookin for a snowgirl" <3
― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Saturday, 25 December 2010 09:33 (thirteen years ago) link
Awesome article Lex. It's so important that we have critics who make R&B their aesthetic centre (if you'll forgive me for simplifying your tastes a bit) - and that those critics can do it justice!
― Tim F, Saturday, 25 December 2010 09:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Lex, you are KILLING it.
― T Bone Streep (Cave17Matt), Saturday, 25 December 2010 15:18 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah great piece lex, props for that!
so many albums came out recently that I haven't gotten to really listen to seriously - jamie foxx, keyshia cole, keri (I did listen to this once and I liked the faux-reggae tune a lot)- plus catching up on stuff that I kind of slept on (bilal, jose james, k. michele mixtape, etc.) and Diddy, R. Kelly & Ciara's albums have been monopolizing my listening time - wish they wouldn't have all come out so late in the year. Love Letter reads to me like a pure exhibition of his talents - like, for those that have complained about his output over last few years/him not making "grown music" - he just tossed this album out to shut them up. He can do this kind of classicism in his sleep. The whole thing sounds effortless - I'm quite excited to hear Zodiac now.
overall, I think 2010 was a transition period for R&B - I don't think it was an amazing year, but there's definitely something interesting brewing
― the nutwasher (The Brainwasher), Saturday, 25 December 2010 19:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Tbh I probably cared less about r&b this year than any time in the past 5 years at least. Most stuff just wasn't doing it for me, at least not in large quantities. I listen to a bunch of the stuff you guys are gushing over and I'm just like ehhhhh.
― The Reverend, Sunday, 26 December 2010 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
no need to put any subjective qualifiers on that, think it's blatantly obvious that - usual suspects putting out the odd good record aside - r&b *as a genre* is in the abject doldrums right now and bears very little relevance to the world at large, never mind setting its trends
then again though i don't put washed-up cutesy slyphs on a creepy indie ice pedestal much less put their acapellas over ruff sqwad tribute productions six years after the fact, so maybe i'm just not enough of a r&b lover to hear the excellence all around idk
― r|t|c, Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:13 (thirteen years ago) link
but there's definitely something interesting brewing
where
― r|t|c, Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:15 (thirteen years ago) link
then again though i don't put washed-up cutesy slyphs on a creepy indie ice pedestal much less put their acapellas over ruff sqwad tribute productions six years after the fact
lol
― in my world of yung joc (The Reverend), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:21 (thirteen years ago) link
well yeah, I agree that this wasn't a particularly great or even good year for R&B, but I think - as we've talked about in this thread a few months back - that the genre is getting a lot more removed from the pop charts and you're seeing a return to these sort of traditional, 90s R&B signifiers and aesthetics - Miguel & Jazmine are obvious examples there, but also Monica, even Ciara's "Ride" is very 90s R&B to me... I think this could end up producing some really great stuff. Plus there's a total lack of a bona fide R&B STAR right now (closest there is is Trey Songz? At this point Beyonce, Usher, et al have moved on to poppier pastures), so there's a huge vacuum there. Plus The-Dream, Ne-Yo, etc. are all kind of waning right now, so again there's the space for someone new to come in and shake things up... so mostly I'm just optimistic about where things are headed, though I can see why you'd say the genre is in the "abject doldrums"
― the nutwasher (The Brainwasher), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:24 (thirteen years ago) link
would you really argue though that those 90s signifiers you hear were any more prevalent in 2010 than in the last few years preceding? i mean miguel/ jazmine/even monica to a extent were just missy and salaam remi doing what they always do - the jazmine album was a wonderful articulation of it and one worth getting excited over but still kinda a fluke rather than a pointer to any future i think. likewise 'ride' you could also argue was a kinda micromanaged trick/terius pastiche vision along the lines of how they played mariah's last album; they did (or tried doing) the same for atl bass on that album too but you wouldnt say that was coming back either. (alas!)
i'm happy to be hopeful cos as you say there's an enormous vacuum and these things are perhaps cyclical anyway, but yeah.
― r|t|c, Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:44 (thirteen years ago) link
did i totally miss the atl bass thing on mariah's album? cause i really don't remember a damn thing about one other than that is was next level boring.
― in my world of yung joc (The Reverend), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:48 (thirteen years ago) link
meant the ci-error album. soz if unclear
mariah's was a good fucking album though, albeit perhaps not up to a foreign exchange fan's connoisseurship of next level boring
― r|t|c, Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:55 (thirteen years ago) link
i haven't listened to 'memoirs' since around when it was released, but i bet that it would benefit from being removed from the context of 'love vs money' & the electrik red album
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:57 (thirteen years ago) link
ho ho xp
― in my world of yung joc (The Reverend), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i saw a commenter on an r&b blog call ciara 'basically extinct' which i thought was a top shelf zing
― BIG SANTA aka the sleighdriver (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:58 (thirteen years ago) link
haaa
― in my world of yung joc (The Reverend), Sunday, 26 December 2010 01:58 (thirteen years ago) link
One thing that has struck me about R&B in 2010 is a sense that the fan base (even the intelligent / perceptive / on-point sectors of it - and perhaps this is why it's notable) doesn't seem to know what it wants the music to do.
Defining things against perceived bad directions ("Time Of My Life", say) helps but then turns it into a rear-guard action, a fight to preserve a space for R&B rather than demand or even anticipate anything of it. Maybe that's the only fight we can have at this particular point.
Like, one thing (among many) that struck me about lex's piece is that he sets up all these competing archetypes of R&B which each have thrown up a great album or two this year - Sade vs Erykah vs The-Dream vs Trey Songz vs Fantasia vs Jazmine vs Ciara vs etc. And I love pretty much all of these albums. But all of them feel like signs of the persistence of existing archetypes (a relieving thing, don't get me wrong). Am I wrong in thinking that the non-newb R&B fan would have difficulty making a case for any of these as "the new thing"? (to the extent that there is a new thing it's the very guetta/bep dominance we resist)
"The new thing" is habitually overrated and I suspect this is (properly) an underlying thread in lex's piece anyway - but at the same time it's perhaps this very fragmentation that has allowed R&B to succumb so quickly to the guetta/bep sound.
― Tim F, Sunday, 26 December 2010 03:50 (thirteen years ago) link