Anticipate Ghostface's "Apollo Kids"

Those beats were always intended for Fishscale even before Donuts was released.

what?? no im responding to zvookster arguing that 'sops to hip hop heads' wouldnt include j dilla which by 2006 was not really true any more

when someone who might own a Wild Nothings album gets hip to a rapper, deej will be there to call it corny

j dilla changed my tshirt stans are corny to lots of people whiney

well he wasn't rhyming over donut instruments, he had jay dee making beats for him then he died and the whole death cult thing happened so it wasn't really a sop either. they were probably fairly cheap decent beats.

Yeah, he was trying to get some of that corny death cult money by getting beats from him when he was still alive. That's fucking logical.

i dont think they rank w/ dilla's best by any means. and i dont think they make sense as tracks that 'fit' ghost's style either

i didnt say anything about 'death cult' you herbs did

ghost totally has a raw, 80s streak, and dilla/doom beats are the tinny, tense, subway-listen heir to that style

i agree it's more true of 2000 but the real canonization was post-donuts whereas ghost was already working with him

deej u said "rapping over donuts instruments" so...

fishscale is just not that good an album imo. whats corny isnt 'who likes it' its that its not good but is praised like its a classic & the only reason i can see someone calling it a classic is bcuz 'classic' artists like pete rock & dilla, who get the kind of auteur's blind adoration hip hop heads are into, produce some mediocre tracks on it

i agree it's more true of 2000 but the real canonization was post-donuts whereas ghost was already working with him

deej u said "rapping over donuts instruments" so...

― zvookster, Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:48 AM (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

they are instrumentals
that were also on donuts

oh for fuck's sake, guys, let's not make this a sequel to the Diddy and Kanye in which the same three people fight over the same stupid shit.

lol deej

i didnt say anything about 'death cult' you herbs did

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 9:46 AM Bookmark

You used ever-so-slightly different language to describe the exact same phenomenon, yes.

I don't think Fishscale's as good as Pretty Toney fwiw. deej may be right about it's adoration having to do with it's producers (why'd you leave MF Doom off yr list deej?) but there is a weird kind of strawmanning going on implying that you know people don't actually LIKE the album, they are just fronting cuz the producers have "coolness" cred or something. which is never a good look deej. argue about the music, the details, the specifics on their own merits, it's more defensible.

rmde at deej

shakey otm

I mean it may very well be the case that Fishscale's sense of importance is augmented by the fact that Ghost worked with a bunch of producers - Doom, Dilla, Pete Rock - that tons of hip hop heads like to listen to. (as opposed to Anthony 'Acid' Caputo)

The best songs on Fishscale aren't the ones by name producers anyway.

seriously, deej, as much as you make fun of corny indie fuxxors your constant instistance that 'street rap' is the only worthy shit out there is worse than a vivalavinyl poster calling cornball on In The Red Records or something. You have that street-level, under-underground, losing-my-edge obsessions of metal dudes who wanna be kvlt, but just replace like Bone Awl records with Alley Boy

in short, Dilla is dope, stfu

I first owned Fishscale as a download, which I listened to for months without seeing credits. I just loved it because almost every track offered a beat or a rhyme I wasn't expecting. I hadn't heard TPTA though, and in hindsight it's probably better, but I don't know what Pete Rock and DOOM had to do with my love in the first place.

seriously, deej, as much as you make fun of corny indie fuxxors your constant instistance that 'street rap' is the only worthy shit out there is worse than a vivalavinyl poster calling cornball on In The Red Records or something. You have that street-level, under-underground, losing-my-edge obsessions of metal dudes who wanna be kvlt, but just replace like Bone Awl records with Alley Boy

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:53 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont do this u idiot

you obviously pay zero attention to my writing or posts if u think thats what im about

it's really not that complicated. Ghostface made a record, Fishscale, with a bunch of well-known and well-loved producers. Everybody brought their A-game, and a lot of people liked the results (although not, incidentally, as many people as bought Supreme Clientele, and not as many as bought Ironman). There is really no mystery here. The implication that stans somehow adore the album simply because those producers names are on it and not because they actually enjoy the songs is just strawmanning bullshit.

xp

& i know more of dilla's catalog & have been listening to him longer than your bandwagon azz, xps to whiney

it's really not that complicated. Ghostface made a record, Fishscale, with a bunch of well-known and well-loved producers. Everybody brought their A-game, and a lot of people liked the results (although not, incidentally, as many people as bought Supreme Clientele, and not as many as bought Ironman). There is really no mystery here. The implication that stans somehow adore the album simply because those producers names are on it and not because they actually enjoy the songs is just strawmanning bullshit.

xp

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:57 AM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nah i just think stans are willing to put up w/ mediocre product from their favorite brand names

& i know more of dilla's catalog & have been listening to him longer than your bandwagon azz, xps to whiney

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:57 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ORLY?

I hadn't heard TPTA though, and in hindsight it's probably better

wait wait alf didn't u tear me a new one when i was new here for saying stylus was mad herbish for rating fishscale over supreme clientele?

i mean, fishscale is so all-over-the-place sonically, the only thing uniting pete rock, doom & dilla is audience -- certainly there are few sonic similarities. it makes the record disjointed, and even tho there are some excellent tracks (like 'back like that' which again would make more sense on pretty toney) the sum is less than the individual parts.

the only thing uniting pete rock, doom & dilla is audience

rmde

wait wait alf didn't u tear me a new one when i was new here for saying stylus was mad herbish for rating fishscale over supreme clientele

I think I remember, sure. In my case I def listen to Fishscale more often.

ORLY?

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 11:58 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well u certainly werent posting in steve spacek threads when i was iirc

i wasn't on ilx back in the days when you were still picking the ticks of ethan's ballsack

deej i wish i could be as 1337 as u have always been ;_;

i thought fishscale was just the best marketed of the 2000s ghost records? at least that why all the "herbs" i know like it.

anyway what were we talking abt

nah i just think stans are willing to put up w/ mediocre product from their favorite brand names

impugning someone's enthusiasm as not being genuine = nagl

will concede deej's point that Fishscale is disjointed, altho one man's disjointed is another's versatility (and weren't you complaining about Ghost's schtick being tired just a few posts ago? again, MAKE SENSE MAN)

you criticize him for being too predictable/boring but then you hold Fishscale's variety against him wtf

i wasn't on ilx back in the days when you were still picking the ticks of ethan's ballsack

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:03 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what does ethan have to do w/ steve spacek

impugning someone's enthusiasm as not being genuine = nagl

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:05 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ppl do that on here all the time

the only thing uniting pete rock, doom & dilla is audience

rmde

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:00 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hey, more evidence whiney has no clue what hes talking about

ppl do that on here all the time

if everyone else jumped off a cliff etc

again dude NAGL

at the very least it's just a poor tack to take because there's no way to prove/disprove it.

that commix steve spacek track in rev's pretentious r&b thread is real nice. (i should have posted jose james - code to that thread)

and i dont think they make sense as tracks that 'fit' ghost's style either

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, 4 January 2011 17:46 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U23NbfDMBaI

is part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDFIFfsqWIs

and part
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esVEocL5uWg

and totally fits imo.

also dilla, doom and pete rock totally rock a similar style, wtf deej. pete rock was an obvious influence on that dilla *sloppy* and open style, which doom took to the extreme (listen to something like 'tick, tick' or 'a dead mouse'). not exactly a surprise that madlib has worked with 2/3 - well afaik he hasn't worked w/ pete rock

obvi theyre not totally unrelated im just saying that whats corny about it is the same as what was corny about every major label rap record in 2005 having a salih williams track w/ paul wall, a jazze pha track, a soul-sampling track, a neptunes track etc .... its like the indie version of production credits by comittee

i don't think the record is disjointed at all though Rock/Dilla/Doom all sort of have a "recorded to cassette tape" vibe to their tracks on this; and the other stuff (save Back Like That) is tense, short loops. The whole record has kind of a "listening to a noir Marley Marl on shitty walkmen speakers" vibe that i love (no chillbro)

I mean disjointed in the sense that the beats are pretty varied - the sound of the album varies pretty widely from track to track. although the same could be said of Supreme Clientele.

Ghostdini and Pretty Toney are the two that really have front-to-back consistent production styles.