Anticipate Ghostface's "Apollo Kids"

and like if Ghost WAS jumping on the doom/dilla bandwagon, he was the only real major label guy doing it at the time, so it's not really like "OHG WE GOTTA GET DRIZZY ON THIS" shit bbbbangladeshhh

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 1:33 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he barely counts as being on a major any more. hes in the def jam tax break category and has been since this record

i don't think the record is disjointed at all though Rock/Dilla/Doom all sort of have a "recorded to cassette tape" vibe to their tracks on this; and the other stuff (save Back Like That) is tense, short loops. The whole record has kind of a "listening to a noir Marley Marl on shitty walkmen speakers" vibe that i love (no chillbro)

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 1:31 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so do tons & tons of rap records though. theres nothing special about the presentation here.

the special part is that its fucking ghostface who is an awesome rapper

SC, pre-sample clearance BP Wallets and Pretty Toney all have really unique thematic vibes to them. fishscale by comparison feels like half pretty toney b sides and half 'respectable' production from 'respected' beatmakers. its like tailor-made for passion of the weiss year-end lists. ironman is also fairly choppy & all-over-the-place thematically, but it benefits from having some of the best rap songs ever made & featuring wu at their hungriest

the special part is that its fucking ghostface who is an awesome rapper

― darwin deej (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 1:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

exactly, its a sub-par gfk album

its like tailor-made for passion of the weiss year-end lists.

here you go again with this.

i think the thematic elements on Fishscale are "coke" and "emotions"—both of which are played out beautifully by tense, nailbiting productions

SC, pre-sample clearance BP Wallets and Pretty Toney all have really unique thematic vibes to them.

I honestly don't see how SC is somehow more coherent/consistent in its themes than Fishscale. like, be specific, cuz I have no idea where you draw that conclusion from.

sell it on ebayyy!

tense, nailbiting

lol, i love it when deej pulls together two completely out of context phrases to prove a "point"

also what is the theme of BP Wallets? that record is all over the place! (I haven't heard the pre-sample clearance version and have no idea how to even find it, that's the kind of thing that disappears quick)

u can pick up the uncleared tracks, that's the way to go

its like tailor-made for passion of the weiss year-end lists.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mJmwQtPmusk/SfYZ1cjoTRI/AAAAAAAADwI/MRWQ9zahPKY/s400/strawman2.jpg

how is riding true school production vibes not a description of the 'strawman' that is a specific site w/ specific tastes

u can pick up the uncleared tracks, that's the way to go

well the Sun and the Watch both appeared on Put It On the Line... are there others?

yeah there are a few more, flowers is one

its true-school vibes on a decidedly new-school record

i had the Bulletproof Wallets promo CD and threw it away before i realized there was a difference #FML

the "no no no" one was for bpw iirc? idk u will find out on google

also what is the theme of BP Wallets? that record is all over the place! (I haven't heard the pre-sample clearance version and have no idea how to even find it, that's the kind of thing that disappears quick)

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 2:01 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its not so much an individual 'theme' but the variation w/in feels like it has a purpose besides riding off the producer's reps, like ghost had an idea of the kind of record he wanted to make & chose beats based on some kind of investement in the record's artistic success

i think he wanted to make a raw record about selling coke and got a bunch of people that make gross, unwieldy, trebly beats

how is riding true school production vibes not a description of the 'strawman' that is a specific site w/ specific tastes

― ich bin ein ilxor (deej), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:04 PM Bookmark

A straw man argument is still a fallacy whether the straw man actually exists or not.

i think the idea that fishscale is a better record is as absurd as thinking 'on to the next one' is the best song of 2009 but i guess this is where we part ways

A straw man argument is still a fallacy whether the straw man actually exists or not.

― tears of a self-clowning oven (The Reverend), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 2:09 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what is the 'fallacy' here

how do we not do this in every other genre we talk about -- i.e. 'fact music' 'swag cru' 'teenpop cru' etc

BPWs producers are all Wu-affiliates (RZA and assorted disciples) with maybe one or two exceptions, iirc?

deej I really cannot follow yr aesthetic criteria, they seem completely arbitrary

xp

xxp That you are misrepresenting other people itt's arguments as being those of a third party and then arguing against the third party arguments as if those are those of the people itt.

how so

xxp That you are misrepresenting other people itt's arguments as being those of a third party and then arguing against the third party arguments as if those are those of the people itt.

― tears of a self-clowning oven (The Reverend), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 2:12 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im explaining why the record got acclaim, not claiming to know why whiney has the bad taste to prefer it to bpw

you're not explaining anything, you're just impugning the motives of some fictional critical-audience aggregate

shakey im not sure what hard about this. bp wallets seems to have a driving purpose or force, ghost has a lot of different ideas on it & tries things other rappers werent. fishscale sounds like half cuts that should have been on the more thematically consistent pretty toney, and a bunch of lazy concessions to his niche/cult real head fanbase. as soon as he stopped engaging w/ rap outside that he became a preaching-to-the-choir type rapper imo & a lot less interesting. he was also, quite clearly i think, less invested in creating great music

you're not explaining anything, you're just impugning the motives of some fictional critical-audience aggregate

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 2:15 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im describing the damn albums, repeatedly.

you're not explaining anything, you're just impugning the motives of some fictional critical-audience aggregate

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:15 PM Bookmark

Exactly.

you're not explaining anything, you're just impugning the motives of some fictional critical-audience aggregate

― assorted curses (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, January 4, 2011 12:15 PM Bookmark

i am doing the later part but i absolutely am explaining why the album doesnt live up to that consensus. try reading?

*latter

srry for being cranky. im leaving this thread now

Where were you when...

as soon as he stopped engaging w/ rap outside that he became a preaching-to-the-choir type rapper imo & a lot less interesting

Ghostdini was preaching-to-the-choir? wtf

lazy concessions to his niche/cult real head fanbase

I don't get what's lazy about Be Easy or Whip You With a Strap. He'd never been on a Pete Rock beat before afaik. I guess the beats were old by the time they came out? is that what makes him lazy? They're good beats! tailor made for him!)

Re BP

its not so much an individual 'theme' but the variation w/in feels like it has a purpose besides riding off the producer's reps

Is that how you listen to hip-hop -- to see how tracks "ride off" a producer's rep?

no i was saying fishscale

...is about that

does it matter?

so Def Jam frees him from his shitty deal with Epic and allows him to get with some relatively hot producers (something I can only assume Epic didn't want to front for) and deej thinks the results don't amount to much more than just a naked marketing approach.

is how I'm reading it

we're supposed to appreciate hip-hop records by the degree to which a rapper does or does not ride off a producer's rep.

I mean, if a producer's rep mattered a whit to me I would never have downloaded the Diddy record.

thats why u are a dumb dumb

diddy always has amazing producers

I'm so out of it I have no idea one would even go about accurately assessing a producer's rep. outside of ILM that is lol