Big & Rich: Album of the Decade?

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haha, I guess my brother has kept my copy of Stairway too long. doesn't make me like "WWShow" though.

I sometimes wonder if one's judgment of musical "gorgeous" has anything to do with one's aesthetic senses about women/men, visual art, etc. then of course I have a beer and put on some gilberto gil and suddenly my head stops hurting, because his stuff from the late 1960s/early 1970s is the fucking epitome of dark and gorgeous to me.

yeah chuck I'm writing it tonight, I never got your email!!!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

as in WIDE open, I meant. wow.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha nice one

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

"White open spaces" sounds like it should be the slogan of Protect Arizona Now.

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

White open wasn't intentional? Dammit! You shoulda just played along.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Come back Men Without Hats, all is forgiven! Come back Beck, Rednex, Ten Pole Tudor and countless forgotten Saturday Night Live music genre comedy sketches... Come back Del Amitri, come back The Rutles! Hell, come back Momus circa 'Folktronic'! Anything rather than this 'album of the decade'.

I once suggested that 'this year's irony is next year's sincerity'. But who wants to hang around to hear those knowing post-modern genre winks we messed with last decade turning from hick-ironic to slick-moronic? Irony is interesting while it's ambivalent, it's fuzzy, it's undecided, it's in crisis, it's vulnerable, it's conflicted. When it hardens into comedy and routine, when it becomes non-negotiable and invulnerable, it's simply unbearable, like being stuck in a room with a bunch of tall economics graduates who decided to do comedy instead.

The whole sound of this record is dismal. Those horrible stadium drums, the cheesy quiz show organ skits, the silly voices, the session musician power chords, the clever-clogs calculatedness and certainty of it all... There isn't a single quirk or mistake, no crack for light or water or soul to get in through. No strangeness, no beauty, no style, nothing but The Concept.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

*checks watch* 200 messages by midnight?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, de gustibus nil disputandum est.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Concepts on their own and on record sound pretty gd to me.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Momus, in another attempt to be the wittiest guy in the room, makes a post in which he criticizes an intentionally imperfect album for being too perfect, and calls it a comedy album in the most humorless prose known to man. Dude, seriously, Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

And yet I'm sounding like I'm really wanting to get involved in this as a debate when I don't, not really. I suspect I'm going to like the Charlie Robison even more than this, and then B&R will only be my #3 country record of the year. Carry on, y'all, I'll look at this thread in a couple of days and have a nice laugh.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I was serious about Men Without Hats, Rednex and Ten Pole Tudor. Conceptual novelty records those may be, but there's some kind of eccentricity or mystery to them. Perhaps unintentionally, they crackle with pathos and soul. Is it because Rednex is sung by non-English speakers, or because they're all from the past? Is that why they somehow fail to be as shoddy and calculated as they planned to be, as exploitative and disposable? Big and Rich don't fail at that. They hit their target and achieve their goal. It's for this reason -- their awful efficiency -- that The Doopees and Flat Eric tower over them.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:06 (nineteen years ago) link

"their awful efficiency"...Momus, you produce j-pop and work for vice, if you ever had any credibility it is now-----

"You play nice with your cousin Nick! He doesn't come over very often, and he's very sensitive!"

"Sorry, mom."

Anyway, whatevs dood.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Personally I consider the credibility of the people liking this record instantly extinguished. I am completely baffled. The only argument I can see in the record's favour is some kind of political one -- 'at least this is better than those racist, homophobic country records we're used to'. Well, no it's not.

I guess the crux and nub of things is that my whole aesthetic is based on an aesthetics of strangeness and danger, weird beauty, error and complexity. And certain people here -- Mr Eddy, perhaps -- seem to applaud an aesthetic of certainty and confidence and correctness. I think they may be embracing that partly because they just like confidence for its own sake, but partly because they've constructed a mainstream listener -- a radio listener -- who requires a high degree of certainty, and they want to hear music that has a chance of reaching and influencing that notional listener, who isn't a sophisticate, can't tolerate much strangeness or danger, but is nevertheless able to be coaxed away from the completely banal to something slightly more nuanced. That's how I explain this atrocity of taste, to myself.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:24 (nineteen years ago) link

(This is the point at which I'm attacked as arrogant and pretentious for speaking on behalf of myself and nobody else, and Mr Eddy to be defended as humble and downright downhome for speaking on behalf of ordinary folks up and down the country.)

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

if it makes you feel any better, Momus, I still like Hayzie Fantayzie and Wide Boy Awake more then Big & Rich, but I understand why you wouldn't like it. I can understand why LOTS of people wouldn't like it. I for one, love the shamelessness of it. Sometimes shame and the cloak of darkness makes for great music, but not all the time. It is corn/camp on a massive and glorious scale. No apologies. No holding back. I think they should collaborate with the Pet Shop Boys.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Schoenberg, trying to convince classical music traditionalists to embrace serialism, told them 'Don't you see, this will ensure the dominance of German classical music for centuries!' Big and Rich are 'busting out of' C&W's conventions only to ensure their survival.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

haha - that "certain people - mr. _____ perhaps" trick to put words in your opponents mouths is goptrixx 101. you can take the momus outta crawford but you can't take the crawford outta momus.

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

anyhow people that hate country music hating a country music album shocker (momus what are your ten fave country lps this year then?).

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I like Momus's "humorless prose."

Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:48 (nineteen years ago) link

seriously carlin and currie on country is like hannity and o'reilly on hip-hop. only you can at least suspect hannity and o'reilly know someone who listens to what they're talking about (even if it's just their landscape crew).

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

(The correct Schoenberg quote is: "I have today made a discovery which will ensure the supremacy of German music for the next hundred years".)

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I could give a flying frig for these imaginary "ordinary folks" Momus dreamed up; I've never once liked a record just because ordinary folks liked it; where did he get that delusion? (Never once *disliked* one because alleged ordinary folks liked it either, of course, and I could give even less of a frig for har har "sophisticates" {that was a joke, right?} but I won't go into that anymore as I am in a good mood today.) I love BOTH Red Nex albums (I compared B&R's "Real World" to them in my Voice review); also like the one Tenpole Tudor and one Men Without Hats song I remember, though Big & Rich blow them both away on hooks or rhythm or vocals or words alone. (Beck, who I also in passing compared B&R to above, would seem to have his good points and his bad points.) And Momus, I didn't find your post (well, at least your first one, before your got all pretentious and arrogant and, well I gotta say it, really really dumb) humorless at all; I kinda thought it was cute. But man, you are stone deaf to the core. And if I'm not mistaken, plenty of stuff you find "dangerous" and "strange," um, isn't.

xposts

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:51 (nineteen years ago) link

And yeah, Scott is right -- Big and Rich probably do not have any tracks as awesome as "Shiny Shiny," I admit it. (Maybe not as great as "John Wayne is Big Leggy", too; I forget what that one sounds like. And probably not as great as "I Eat Cannibals" for that matter, but that is Total Coeleo so maybe they don't count, I'm not sure.)

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

If a southern drawl is the closest we now have to a new Peter Sellers-type strangled Strangelove comedy accent, we have to imagine Big and Rich sitting there in the studio saying to each other the equivalent of 'Ve haff today made ze hybrid vich vill enshuuuah ze zupremacy of Country and Vestern musick for ze next hundred years!'

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Oops, I like TWO Men Without Hats songs I remember ("Safety Dance" AND "Pop Goes the World"); what the hell is wrong with me today??

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link

ok quick query: what is up with critics who love/go on about/list on peremptory bestofs gretchen wilson and then don't mention - negatively, whatever - big $ rich? and the vice versa (though i haven't seen this nearly as much).

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:57 (nineteen years ago) link

All this talk about the gimmick. More than half this album is straight country music, with minimal genre-bending, and for the most part it is very good.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:58 (nineteen years ago) link

hey momus national review has some great stuff on edwards' southern drawl and his "peasant" background you'd love (as if you haven't seen it already)(otherwise how are you echoing it so well?)

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:59 (nineteen years ago) link

People who hate disco AND country must really really hate Big & Rich.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:59 (nineteen years ago) link

The much more "normal" new single, "Holy Water," appears to be rising on the charts way faster than the first two did, according to this week's *Billboard*, just in case anybody's wondering.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Blount you're a scream. You read William F. Buckley's rag, I don't, yet you seem to want to trade your subscription to the National Review for my subscription to the Village Vice. Er, Voice.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

four more weeks dude

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

momus how come you didn't represent on that anti-suicide girls thread? i was totally looking forward to teaming up with you, sorta like when gi joe teamed up with destro.

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:13 (nineteen years ago) link

momus how come you didn't represent on that anti-suicide girls thread

I didn't see that thread. Were you supporting Suicide Girls or attacking it? I don't like it. The mag they were launching bombed and they never paid anyone.

Anyway, I wanted to show that I did Big & Rich's record three years ago. The similarity of the imagery in these two songs -- their 'Rollin' and my 'Robocowboys' -- is startling. Both reference cowboys, crowds, men in black. Both collide genres. Both play on the paradox of the lonely cowboy, and counterpoise him with a crowd. Theirs, though, is conformist, merely reinforcing the stereotype of the individualist in a crowd of individualists. Mine deconstructs the stereotype and shows up the paradox. (My tune also beats theirs, although I stole it from Gary Numan.) Here are extracts from the lyrics of both songs:

Ain't gonna shut my mouth
Don’t mind if I stand out in a crowd
Just want to live out loud
I know there's got to be
A few hundred million more like me
Just tryin' to keep it free

Charley Pride was the man in black
Rock 'n' roll used to be about Johnny Cash
Hey, what do you think about that
I'm a crazy son of a bitch
But I know I'm gonna make it big and rich
Yeah, I'm gonna let it rip

Hey, just wanna hear everybody sing (rollin', rollin')
At the top of your lungs till the windows break (rollin', rollin')
Say hey, Cowboy Troy...

Big & Rich, Rollin' (2004)

There's so many insiders on the outside
I think it's beginning to be the inside
And fire regulations have disallowed
Another lonely cowboy
From joining the lonely crowd

There's so many mavericks right off the map
We've redrawn the map to bring them all back
There's so many renegades off the beaten track
They're beating a track to my door
And I'm beating them back with a board

All the men in black
With nowhere left to go
Their darkness comes pre-packed
With a warm familiar glow

Robocowboys, you're dead ringers
Robocowboys, say you're singers
With your Texas Instruments

And breaking the rules has become the new rule
They're teaching it now at business school
They're all wild and crazy and one of a kind
Anarchists to a man
Everybody does it like no-one else can

And irony's a kind of sincerity now
With so many milking a once-holy cow
And alienation's a kind of belonging
A synth isn't cold any more
There's a country new wave banging on the door...

Momus 'Robocowboys' 2001

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link

(just ducking in quickly because I realize I may have given the wrong impression above -- I love J-pop and I've looked at the Vice website, and was not insulting them, I was just trying to point out that they are the very fucking epitome of Brutal Efficiency)

(and now I just hurt myself laughing at/with 'robocowboys', texas instruments, that's some balls I admit it)

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link

isn't it exciting and dangerous listening to dangerous new music, what with all those empty spaces and dangerous unfilled corners?! music made with laptops that you can't dance to is the most dangerous kind of music nowadays, so that's all i listen to really, because i like dangerous music that threatens and challenges me to listen to more dangerous music. i like it when i can't be certain what kind of dangerous music i'm going to hear next, and when i'm feeling REALLY brave i put the wire sampler on random. but sometimes that's too dangerous.

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

By the way, I made 'Folktronic' in 2000 while Clinton was still in power. But I think its Fake Folk totally anticipates the fakely folksy presidency of Bush -- the completely synthetic populism we've seen in the last four years. I tried to undermine that and neutralise it. (Not that anybody bought my record.) Big & Rich might seem to be subverting those values too, but when you look closer they're buying into them. Having a (very bad) rapper in the band is no more subversive than Bush putting Condi Rice on his team.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

sometimes though, i like songs that are about things. but always dangerous and difficult things, like paradoxes! i like it best when the songs that i'm listening to explain the paradoxes in their lyrics, so i can be sure that it's dangerous and not normal.

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link

when i'm not listening to dangerous music, i think about how it's a pity that black people are so easily subverted by the ruling overclass of faketronic robopublicans.

m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link

>Mine deconstructs the stereotype and shows up the paradox. <

Ha ha. Hey Momus, are you in Liquid Tapedeck, by any chance? If not, you join them! Your posts sound *exactly* like their press releases (except not as funny, but they could probably help you with that).

And now...

Neil Young - Computer Cowboy (1982)

Well, his cattle each have numbers
And they all eat in a line
When he turns the floodlights on each night
Of course the herd looks perfect!
Computer cowboy.

Well, he rides the range ?til midnight
And the wild coyotes yowl
As he trots beneath the floodlights
And of course the rhythm is perfect!
Computer cowboy.

Ride along computer cowboy
To the city just in time
To bring another system down
And leave your alias behind:
Computer syscrusher.

Computer syscrusher.

Crusher. syscrusher.

Syscrusher.

Come a ky ky yippee yi yippee yi ay
Come a ky ky yippee yi ay.
Come a ky ky yippee yi yippee yi ay
Come a ky ky yippee yi ay.

Computer syscrusher.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:51 (nineteen years ago) link

PWNED

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Never heard of Liquid Tapedeck, Chuck.

You're going to quote 'Hi-Tech Redneck' to me next, aren't you?

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Nah, I was trying to remember that Joe Ely robocowboy one from 1981 or so, but I can't.

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:10 (nineteen years ago) link

As for liquid tapedeck, they can beat peons over the head with how subversive and deconstructive they wish they were as well as ANYBODY, I promise (well, not was well as dj spooky, maybe, but they have way better song titles than him): http://www.thetapedeck.com/

chuck, Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link

haha - "i prefer the fat janeane"

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Ew, Chuck, you made me look at some penises.

Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:22 (nineteen years ago) link

the "fat Janeane" is no joke, I preferred her too!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

klaus nomi did sci-fi country briefly with his rubberband lazer which i'm shocked mr. currie hasn't mentioned. actually, i'm shocked he reappeared.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay Chuck check your email.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 22:46 (nineteen years ago) link


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