Janelle Monae

i think it would code to a lot of critics as a hipper affect, if it did. whereas for her its just that shes not *real* enough or w/e

(i mean that in the felt-performance way not the authenticity way)

I am not sure I understand what you're trying to say.

Are you saying that if people bought her performance style, its divergence from both big-voiced bellowing and no-voiced monotone would be seen as a strength rather than a weakness?

I don't think I've said this before (because I'm not sure how to elaborate on it), but I think Janelle Monae's vocal models, a lot of the time anyway, are less R&B than jazz. The way she is emotionally positioned in relation to the music reminds me more of someone like Ellla Fitzgerald. I admit the fact that I'm not really very conversant with either jazz or R&B vocalists means you all have good reason not to take this too seriously, but maybe someone else who would know what they are talking about could run with this idea?

Also, I don't think what Reverend is praising can be paraphrased as: "ambition or scope or breadth etc."

If she was white, this supposed lack of emotion in her music would never even come up.

― Indolence Mission (DJP), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 2:17 PM Bookmark

otm

no i like janelle. im saying that for white ppl doing similar distancing it codes as 'hip affect' -- her performative distance codes as professional, overly rehearsed, not emotionally on the surface, & theres a bias in favor of 'raw emotion' when it comes to black artists a lot of the time ime

by the end of the album she rather explicitly makes the jazz connection via "BabopbyeYa"

xp: Ah so I was sort of right, and yeah I totally agree with you.

Also the thing about Ella Fitzgerald otm, too.

She doesn't want to be Aretha, she wants to be Stevie.

you know its really interesting ive been reading this elijah wald book on the history of popular music in the 20th century, and he talks a lot about how early rock broke with the traditional songwriting style of sinatra etc esp the style performed by mitch miller ... the 'raw emotional' thing was looked down on, and it became a generational divide thing. its part of why johnnie ray was the first white guy to top the 'race record' charts was because he *got this* -- as did teenagers.

the book also argues that circa the beatles, the popular music scenes diverge irreperably along race lines, so you have black & white musical traditions entirely separating in a way that they hadnt w/ swing & pre-beatles rock ...

im not making an argument here but these are interesting contextual pieces i think

esp the style *produced* by mitch miller, i mean

i wish i could explain in more detail / more clearly but i dont have time at work :-/

i think most people's problem with this record is that her voice is mixed too high for r&b

i would just like to quickly pat myself on the back for getting through the entirety of 2010 without trolling this thread, and apologize in advance if i start once the P&J results are out

never would have predicted that you would hate this lol

i assume you're kidding!

I don't care about her sincerity, her fakeness, whatever -- I just don't like the grain of her voice.

haha, ditto for alfred

i still kinda think she hasnt done anything as good as 'many moons.' i still like this record a fair amount. 'faster' was particularly great.

i still kinda think she hasnt done anything as good as 'many moons.' i still like this record a fair amount. 'faster' was particularly great.

― *gets the power* (deej), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:46 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark

While I do really dig The ArchAndroid, I'm inclined to agree with deej here.

There was an electricity on the EP, and besides Tightrope, and maybe Cold War, a lot of the stuff here doesn't JUMP at me the same way. The EP grabbed me by the shoulders and said PAY ATTENTION. This is very accomplished and enjoyable, but it doesn't make me want to shove copies into people's hands and say LISTEN TO THIS.

I like a lot of this album but "Tightrope" actually does nothing for me pretty much, if there's a tune on there that feels like it's executing the idea of a style rather than actually embodying it then it's that track (for me).

Which is odd because I'm always reading people say the exact opposite.

"Faster" is my favourite by some distance.

I still think (possibly unfairly) that people are more upset that Janelle isn't a Jazmin Sullivan-style bellower than anything else, so they don't know how to hear emotion in her delivery.

Also IDK about this, though I can see how it loks that way. The Janelle/Jazmine comparison is based on different conceptions of the "theatrical" in R&B (and also that both Janelle and Jazmine mine the past) but it's not like these are the only options for R&B... Cassie and Aaliyah and Ciara are all ILX canon much more than Jazmine Sullivan and neither bellow nor even really "emote" in a really obvious time-honoured fashion.

So it's not really that people can't deal with non-bellowing emotion in R&B, but perhaps rather that they can't deal with non-bellowing theatricality. NB. this is not actually a problem for me but I'm interested in other people's reactions around this.

And on this point I sort of think Fantasia (or Jennifer Hudson) would have been a better point of comparison insofar as her music is occasionally showtune-ish but obv in a very different way to Janelle - i.e. she's the number 1 example of over-emoting theatricality.

the jazmine comparison came up primarily because of the "inventive" "genre-busting" arrangements janelle gets credited for - i brought jazmine into it because she, i feel, is way more inventive and genre-spanning with her arrangements, certainly one of the foremost r&b artists atm w/r/t them. and i think the vastly disparate amounts of critical attention paid to them makes it an interesting point of comparison too.

I think a lot of what I find mesmerizing about Janelle's arrangements is not the variety *between* them, but the variety *within* them.

Like, there's no reason why "Tightrope" should go from straightforward JB pastiche to ukeleles and turntables and "Happy birthday to you", but when it does, I lose my shit.

yeah "many moons" is still her peak xps

i guess, but that's my main specific complaint about the album - i find it overstuffed and wearying to listen to.

I still haven't heard anything from the new Jazmine album that makes me care about checking it out.

The overstuffedness is at least 50% of the appeal for me.

what have you actually heard from it? "love you long time", "don't make me wait", "luv back", "redemption", "good enough"?

I find it invigorating rather than wearying.

Umm, I dunno, a couple songs. I don't remember them tbh.

I'm indifferent at best to the Monae but I'm not too impressed with the Sullivan either.

One of them sampled "Affirmative Action" and the other one sampled "I'm Going Down".

Oh, and I heard one that was a Minneapolis sound type thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYH3VuJhoNI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKjvEuGQ9RA

Both these seem kind of lw? I still haven't heard anything by her other than "Need You Bad" that I really care about.

Those are the two best on the Sullivan, besides maybe the lead single. Don't Make Me Wait is also worth checking, but besides that it's good-but-not-great.

If those are the best she's got, then the tunes are stickier on the Monae album.

By a longshot.

No arguments here.

rev dont let lex pitting them against each other ruin jazmine for you!

I'm indifferent at best to the Monae but I'm not too impressed with the Sullivan either.

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:27 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha this is like the most soto interjection i could imagine

*pithily condescends to all involved*

what is lw?

lightweight as in lightweight jammin

My indifference to Jazmine's new stuff predates this argument so

deej doing a great job flirting with me tonight

i dont like jazmine as much as andy k or lex (which sorta surprised me) but idk i think its also pretty good. i think in some ways its a weird comparison -- not that it was weird of dan to bring it up, because i think he was touching on something w/r/t ppl's ilx worldviews on this stuff (that tim's adjustment of might be more accurate but nontheless) but because at some level its like ... why are these being compared when they're going for such different audiences?

the 'problem' w the poll results is simply that one audience is more likely to write about music in these channels