Janelle Monae

I still think (possibly unfairly) that people are more upset that Janelle isn't a Jazmin Sullivan-style bellower than anything else, so they don't know how to hear emotion in her delivery.

Also IDK about this, though I can see how it loks that way. The Janelle/Jazmine comparison is based on different conceptions of the "theatrical" in R&B (and also that both Janelle and Jazmine mine the past) but it's not like these are the only options for R&B... Cassie and Aaliyah and Ciara are all ILX canon much more than Jazmine Sullivan and neither bellow nor even really "emote" in a really obvious time-honoured fashion.

So it's not really that people can't deal with non-bellowing emotion in R&B, but perhaps rather that they can't deal with non-bellowing theatricality. NB. this is not actually a problem for me but I'm interested in other people's reactions around this.

And on this point I sort of think Fantasia (or Jennifer Hudson) would have been a better point of comparison insofar as her music is occasionally showtune-ish but obv in a very different way to Janelle - i.e. she's the number 1 example of over-emoting theatricality.

the jazmine comparison came up primarily because of the "inventive" "genre-busting" arrangements janelle gets credited for - i brought jazmine into it because she, i feel, is way more inventive and genre-spanning with her arrangements, certainly one of the foremost r&b artists atm w/r/t them. and i think the vastly disparate amounts of critical attention paid to them makes it an interesting point of comparison too.

I think a lot of what I find mesmerizing about Janelle's arrangements is not the variety *between* them, but the variety *within* them.

Like, there's no reason why "Tightrope" should go from straightforward JB pastiche to ukeleles and turntables and "Happy birthday to you", but when it does, I lose my shit.

yeah "many moons" is still her peak xps

i guess, but that's my main specific complaint about the album - i find it overstuffed and wearying to listen to.

I still haven't heard anything from the new Jazmine album that makes me care about checking it out.

The overstuffedness is at least 50% of the appeal for me.

what have you actually heard from it? "love you long time", "don't make me wait", "luv back", "redemption", "good enough"?

I find it invigorating rather than wearying.

Umm, I dunno, a couple songs. I don't remember them tbh.

I'm indifferent at best to the Monae but I'm not too impressed with the Sullivan either.

One of them sampled "Affirmative Action" and the other one sampled "I'm Going Down".

Oh, and I heard one that was a Minneapolis sound type thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYH3VuJhoNI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKjvEuGQ9RA

Both these seem kind of lw? I still haven't heard anything by her other than "Need You Bad" that I really care about.

Those are the two best on the Sullivan, besides maybe the lead single. Don't Make Me Wait is also worth checking, but besides that it's good-but-not-great.

If those are the best she's got, then the tunes are stickier on the Monae album.

By a longshot.

No arguments here.

rev dont let lex pitting them against each other ruin jazmine for you!

I'm indifferent at best to the Monae but I'm not too impressed with the Sullivan either.

― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:27 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha this is like the most soto interjection i could imagine

*pithily condescends to all involved*

what is lw?

lightweight as in lightweight jammin

My indifference to Jazmine's new stuff predates this argument so

deej doing a great job flirting with me tonight

i dont like jazmine as much as andy k or lex (which sorta surprised me) but idk i think its also pretty good. i think in some ways its a weird comparison -- not that it was weird of dan to bring it up, because i think he was touching on something w/r/t ppl's ilx worldviews on this stuff (that tim's adjustment of might be more accurate but nontheless) but because at some level its like ... why are these being compared when they're going for such different audiences?

the 'problem' w the poll results is simply that one audience is more likely to write about music in these channels

how are you defining "in these channels"?

a lot of ppl writing about R&B are doing so more on gossip blog-type formats & might not even consider themselves 'critics'

Sorry for being a corny indie fuck.

rmde

Oh damn, that doesn't autoreplace anymore.

ha rev i like janelle monae -- not rlly the issue

I know, wasn't directed at you, mostly Alfred and Lex.

You're one of the few people (Dan too) who's articulated why the album works. I aimed my comment at so many critics and friends -- none of whom are particularly friendly to R&B -- for praising the album in exactly the same terms. I'm sorry for offending you.

Fair 'nuff.

Man. I get so exhausted by listening to both suites in a row sometimes that I don't end of listening to BaBopBye Ya but seriously on the first two and a half minutes of this, her phrasing is gorgeous. And I think I hear chromatic runs of chords on a piano in the distant background?

*don't end up listening to

Like, there's no reason why "Tightrope" should go from straightforward JB pastiche to ukeleles and turntables and "Happy birthday to you", but when it does, I lose my shit.

Apropos of nothing, that last bit sometimes reminds me of Herbert's Scale album.

the only thing that really bothers me about 'tightrope' is the moment when big boi raps about falling into the gap & suddenly i think im in a gap commercial

The fact that she can't really sing doesn't seem to me such a problem—she compensates for her technical limitations with vaudevillian pizzazz.

http://www.slate.com/id/2281158/entry/2282198

Janelle Monae as notably technically limited among vocalists outside of classical music? How much spice does Jody Rosen smoke?

Some his other criticisms I can at least sympathize with, but I think he's focusing too much on the incidental mumbo-jumbo and not enough on the music.

Also, if he's seen her live - and surely at this point he must have - then he understands how effective said incidental mumbo-jumbo actually is, and also her place her a long continuum of mumbo-jumbo.

Yeah, that's by far the most bizarre criticism I've read.

criticism of her*

I don't know if I've said this already
But I think people rag on Janelle's vox because they are mixed way loud
She's a great singer, everything about ArchAndroid is v cool except the mix... A/B it with other R&B records and you'll see, you'll see.

Eh? I didn't really notice her voice being too loud... If anything, I thought it was a bit lower in the instrumental mix than what is common in the pop music of the 00s; this was possibly done to enhance the late 60s/early 70s vibe many of the tunes have.

monae is technically limited? wtf. thats wrong. not like shes cassie.

Eh? I didn't really notice her voice being too loud... If anything, I thought it was a bit lower in the instrumental mix than what is common in the pop music of the 00s; this was possibly done to enhance the late 60s/early 70s vibe many of the tunes have.

No, exactly. It's mixed like a 00s pop record. Specifically, it's mixed like an Alicia Keys record.
The vox are way, way more present than any 60s/70s R&B that I can call to mind, save maybe Minnie Riperton

So I saw her show live last night and it was quite something. She can really move and hold an audience. During the encore she had everybody crouching down (and I mean, EVERYBODY) and singing along. Her band were so tight and she really does have a great voice - almost identical to how it sounds on record. I doubt it would have convinced any haters but if you've got even a passing fondness for her I would really recommend grabbing a ticket if you can, especially if the thought of a cross between a superstar performance and a really corny pantomine does it for you.

I relaly like Janelle. can't say I'm heavily into the 'concept' on the record, but the sound is amazing.