Pazz and Jop 2010

you could be talking about the top 20 singles on billboard too

haha except the "white" part

so a random person you grabbed on the street would be just as likely to know Sleigh Bells or Ariel Pink songs as they would Pitbull or Bruno Mars? really?

why are we all in the 2010 thread?

the Village Voice site refers to the Pazz & Jop poll that surveys the music of 2010 and releases its results in 2011 as "Pazz & Jop 2010," and so this thread does follow suit

so a random person you grabbed on the street would be just as likely to know Sleigh Bells or Ariel Pink songs as they would Pitbull or Bruno Mars? really?

you're misrepresenting what you wrote - think if the proverbial "man on the street" were asked how many songs in this year's top 20 they could hum, it'd be a lot lower than 5 or 10 or 20 or 30 years ago

http://alto.to.free.fr/arcade_room/images/pong.jpg

I know, I know but -- seriously, I count maybe 10, at most 12 songs on this year's P&J top 20 that a person has a good chance of knowing if they're not relatively young and/or spend a good amount of time browsing music sites. most of the Billboard top 20 is either oppressively ubiquitous or probably will be in a few weeks. xpost

what i'd probably hypothesize from all this is, as the music monoculture loses its weight and its easier and easier to focus on your niche (and honestly, harder and harder to not), critics are feeling less of a need to acknowledge/pay respects to what's left of it, though as the kanye singles-albums crossover suggests, they LOVE to when the opportunity arises

Conversely, ask the average person on ilx what Edward Maya & Vika Jigulina's "Stereo Love" sounds like

what i'd probably hypothesize from all this is, as the music monoculture loses its weight and its easier and easier to focus on your niche (and honestly, harder and harder to not), critics are feeling less of a need to acknowledge/pay respects to what's left of it, though as the kanye singles-albums crossover suggests, they LOVE to when the opportunity arises

― da croupier, Thursday, January 27, 2011 12:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah ive been saying a similar thing w/ rap (and rap singles) as a whole this year, it seemed really noticeable to me -- rap is again an 'underground thing' the way it was in the early 90s

what i'd probably hypothesize from all this is, as the music monoculture loses its weight and its easier and easier to focus on your niche (and honestly, harder and harder to not), critics are feeling less of a need to acknowledge/pay respects to what's left of it, though as the kanye singles-albums crossover suggests, they LOVE to when the opportunity arises

― da croupier, Thursday, January 27, 2011 1:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah totally. Kanye will probably be the placeholder "hey look a chart-topping pop phenomenon on my ballot!" artist for a lot of critics for a long time.

gaga, jay-z, kanye, the "artist" stars are still doing fine on pazz single charts, it's the random earworms that gain their power in part from being inescapable that are falling down the charts because its easier and easier to escape them

in terms of how its treated by critics, i mean, not in terms of popularity per se xxp

gaga, jay-z, kanye, the "artist" stars are still doing fine on pazz single charts, it's the random earworms that gain their power in part from being inescapable that are falling down the charts because its easier and easier to escape them

― da croupier, Thursday, January 27, 2011 1:25 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark

this is definitely true. says a lot that "Empire" was Jay's first P&J #1.

like i guarantee every time i've heard "OMG" I've enjoyed it just a little more, but fuck you if you think i'm just gonna make myself experience it they way I did a top ten song in the nineties

that song? oh heavens no, no argument there.

haha actually, I hated most pop shit as a teen in the 90s, but judging from p'n'j critics had a little more stockholm syndrome going on back in the day

like i guarantee every time i've heard "OMG" I've enjoyed it just a little more, but fuck you if you think i'm just gonna make myself experience it they way I did a top ten song in the nineties

― da croupier, Thursday, January 27, 2011 12:27 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is a weird song that way. really ingratiating in a way that encourages resistance

I'd like to ask everybody, reviewers (whether you voted or not) and non-reviewers too: in what way do you find P&J to be useful? As a shopping list (and/or list of Musts To Avoid, Subjects For Further Research, like for listening without paying for it)? Or confirming suspicions, unexpected revelations, mildly entertaining means of procrastination, other, none of the above, not at all?

stunting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qk1AFH9Y4

in years past it was great as a shopping list. lately, for me, it's more of a porthole in what the crithivemind off ILX thinks
also good for finding people with similar tastes and then seeing what they like

I look at it as the closest thing to a complete survey of critical consensus that exists, kind of the final word after all the other mags and sites have done their staff lists representing a smaller piece of the pie. So sometimes it lines up with what those other lists showed, sometimes it's a surprise, but it's always interesting and kind of gives a last chance to look at the year as a whole and make some sense of it before moving onto the next year.

yeah ive been saying a similar thing w/ rap (and rap singles) as a whole this year, it seemed really noticeable to me -- rap is again an 'underground thing' the way it was in the early 90s

― tuomascratch beat (deej), Thursday, January 27, 2011 1:24 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its really has a lot to do with how rock critics GET (or don't get) rap music.

Like I think about 2010 and I had to do ACTUAL WORK to hear shit like E-40, Rick Ross, Roc Marciano, Jacka, Roach Gigz, Yelawolf, etc...

• Major labels aren;t servicing writers these records
• Mixtapes are getting lost in this enormous shuffle of material
• Sites like Pfork/Stereogum/BrooklynVeg that are donimating the inter discourse all marganilize these artists to some extent (exceptions are stuff like Lil B, Odd Future, Big KRIT)

Like I had to download shit, traverse Nah Right's impossible format, read blogs, read ILX. On the other hand The National just showed up in my inbox one day and everyone wouldnt shut up about it after

Part of it is "oh rock critcs, do your fuckin homework", but then like really does anyone expect them to?

ie, I had to actually DO SOMETHING to learn that E-40 made a good record. I didn't have to do anything but press a link in an email we all got when Ariel Pink did something

i get lots & lots of rap emails but its all for garbage

^i'm sayin!

make that point #4

i didnt start getting say DaVinci emails until after i reviewed him lol

& yeah i mean husalah follows the somanyshrimp twitter but i have to do youtube - uploaded in the past week searches to find out if hes got any new releases

so it's like how can we really expect a National fan to be following Husulah on YouTube?

imo this is a failure of major labels to engage w/ rap any more

i think there is a general failure of major labelsto engage with most music genres tbh

yah def

you & I mention it about rap & metal a lot but really just about every genre is in the same boat. I suppose it's no surprise that they value making up for lost revenue by going for a quick buck with idol/xfactor stuff,but you cant tell me there aren't good stuff in every genre that couldn't crossover with a little help. I know there's plenty of good stuff in metal that could do that, but the majors would rather push utter shit like avenged sevenfold rather than letting good bands develop at their own pace like in the old days with say the thrash big 4. I do feel that there's enough good bands that could sell well as well as being actually good bands and critical faves and im pretty sure its the same with rap and other genres. Guy Hands at EMI is perfect example of a guy not having a clue about music.

I've said this before, obviously, but I think the P&J is most interesting because it's the only sizable poll that actually lets you see the votes. The bigger the electorate, the less interesting the "results" necessarily become, but the more other insight you can extract from the data. Even if all you do is wander from album to voter to song to voter to album, like you could do on the Voice's own site long before I had anything to do with it, this is a fascinating associative journey through an assemblage (however arbitrary) of brains that are at least nominally engaged in thinking about music. Sometimes it helps me personally discover music I like, but more often it helps me understand relationships and affinities in music I *don't* necessarily listen to myself.

Algie, I will say that as someone who covers both fairly equally, it's remarkably easier to keep up with metal than rap through critic channels

Although def not as easy as indie rock, which is why like all good metal bands get indie praise on the record AFTER their good one

Algie, I will say that as someone who covers both fairly equally, it's remarkably easier to keep up with metal than rap through critic channels

Probably because metal has really become an albums genre now? (same as indie i guess)

also lol Algie

You're right. But weren't you the one complaining there's no metal in the singles list?

wasn't exactly complaining, Glenn pointed out there was none and i probably spoke a lotta shit as usual :)

Still say Nachtmystium - No Funeral deserved to be top 20, just a shame no sod has heard it. Plus the likes of High On Fire and Torche for example make great songs as well as albums and I find it strange they get ignored by radio as much as critics.

I was thinking about that this morning and wondering about the metal songs (not nu metal) in the 2000s that kind took a life of their own and felt like cult singles in the metal world on the level of Bloodbuzz Ohio

Queens Of The Stone Age - "Feel Good Hit Of The Summer"
Mastodon - "Blood And Thunder"
High On Fire - "Devilution"
Boris - "Farewell"
Dillinger Escape Plan - "Black Bubblegum"

and like that's it?

obv if you include nu-metal bands and emocore theres tons more

i don't know about d.e.p. but it feels kinda telling that the rest of those are opening tracks on their albs

I think we need a rolling thread where we can actually list/post links to youtube for songs like that from the last 10 years to try get ilxors to check stuff out they wouldn't normally. When i see some of the crap rock the goons for example like (sorry guys) i cant help feeling that they might dig some stuff the rolling metal dudes like if they just heard it. Radip etc isn't going to introduce anybody to it but Whiney you are more in tune with those guys so im sure you know what they might dig and they might check out stuff if you do start a thread on it. If I did it then it would just be ignored!

*radio etc

this thread has inspired me to put casey kasem top 40 for 12/20/86 on the turntable. forgot about change of heart by cyndi lauper.

sam fox nipping at cyndi's heels!

oh wait other way around. sam at #36. cyndi at #37.