Moby Grape: Classic or Dud?

Fun Fact: Jerry Miller played most of the guitar on the last Chocolate Watchband lp.

First album doesn't quite live up to its rep IMO, though unquestionably still a great straightforward rock LP with nice multipart vocals, triple-threat guitars, and consistantly good (but not great) songwriting. Also mixes hints of folk, blues, jazz, and country adroitly. For a band often labelled "psychedelic", notable that the only drug they sang the praises of was Robitussin!

Wow was the first Grape album I heard, and like many rock acts in that period, decided in the wake of Sgt. Pepper that any leading-edge rock band needed to embellish their music with strings, brass, and studio trickery. Some excellent songs here ("He", "Can't Be So Bad"), several forgettable ones ("Miller's Blues"), some half-baked good ideas, and more gimmicks (a lock groove near the end of side 1; you had to advance the stylus and play the last track at 78rpm). The free bonus disk, Grape Jam, is a collection of boring jam sessions, notable only for the first 45 seconds of the record: "Never" was copped by Led Zeppelin which built "Since I've Been Loving You" around the first verse of this song (after which it diverges completely).

Moby Grape '69 was more consistent than it's predecessor, more countrified, and no longer overproduced. Skip was out of the band by this point.

Don't recall anything all that likeable from the next two albums or the Bob Mosley solo LP. I've heard only a few song's from Oar, and wasn't excited enough to hear the rest. I also have their (again) self-titled 1983 album, which is likeable but utterly unexceptional adult-contemporary fare that could have been the work of, say, Firefall if it were catchier.

From what i understand, the best-sounding reissue of the first album was on Columbia's "Vintage" 2-disc set, which includs the 1st album in its entirety and highlights from the other three Columbia discs, with some outtakes and alternate versions thrown in. The Katz-issued CDs on the San Francisco Sound label sound like crap.

The "Grape Jam" record's only notable track is the one they recorded as a 'prize' in a songwriters competition.

Particularly the end "Whatever happened to hairy mary", which was a madly smutty entry they weren't allowed to choose as the winner.

The live sundazed 2lp is pretty spotty, tbh, but the sidelong "Dark Magic" recorded on new year's ever 1966 is unbelievably great.
Arguably worth the price of the set, but it's a pretty expensive set. They went all out on the packaging.

It's on the CD anyway, innit?

I dunno.

What CD?

oink

waffles

I don't know if anybody's already mentioned these, but I love "Ain't That a Shame" and "I Am Not Willing" from the third album. First LP's great, of course; haven't heard the second.

"dark magic" is kind of the pinnacle of this band imo

s/t > grape 69 > truly fine citizen > 20 granite creek > wow

imo.

First album doesn't quite live up to its rep IMO, though unquestionably still a great straightforward rock LP with nice multipart vocals, triple-threat guitars, and consistantly good (but not great) songwriting. Also mixes hints of folk, blues, jazz, and country adroitly. For a band often labelled "psychedelic", notable that the only drug they sang the praises of was Robitussin!

I never understood where the "psychedelic" label came from (at least, wrt the first record). The Book Of Rock Lists (listing Grape in "Bands That Died Before Their Time") in fact called them one of the only non-psychedelic bands to come out of the Bay Area.

In terms of songwriting, "Mr. Blues" (among others) is some crazy shit. The intro that never reappears? The lack of a chorus? That weird little breakdown just before the end? All in less than 2:00.

Agreed. Moby Grape is not in any way, shape, or form a psychedelic-rock band.

Several of the songs on the 1st album have end sections that don't appear anywhere else in the song (Mr. Blues, Someday, Indifference), or at least oddball codas (Ain't No Use, Lazy Me).

"The Place And The Time" is their craziest songwriting though IMO, to say nothing of production. Nothing even close to a chorus in there.

I'm gonna have to revisit that one; I know the first record like the back of my hand, but the rest of them I'm not as familiar with.

My only gripe with the first record is the production. In fact, aside from CCR and Sly, I can't think of a single Bay Area band that was decently recorded at that time. The snare on the first Grape record sounds like close-miked wax paper.

Moby Grape is not in any way, shape, or form a psychedelic-rock band
you should listen to Dark Magic, because it's sure as shit psychedelic.

OK I've never heard anything but the studio albums. You're referring to the recently released live set?

He is.

My only gripe with the first record is the production. In fact, aside from CCR and Sly, I can't think of a single Bay Area band that was decently recorded at that time. The snare on the first Grape record sounds like close-miked wax paper.

OTM

First Quicksilver album is nice sounding.

surrealistic pillow sounds good imo.

The post-SP Airplane albums sound even better.

First Big Brother, too. Mainstream label stuff had a nice, clean sound.

It was clean, but tame. I get the sense listening to those records that the engineers had no clue how to record/mike a loud drum kit (if those drummers even played loud), and told the drummers to lighten things up a bit.

That's interesting. I do tend to like '60s rock drummers that had a lighter touch, like Ron Edgar in the Music Machine or the guy in the Peanut Butter Conspiracy.

We need a Peanut Butter Conspiracy thread! Listening to "It's a Happening Thing" or "Turn on a Friend" for the first time made me feel like I'd just discovered the unbeknownst missing link between the Spanky & Our Gang and Jefferson Airplane...

the

Spencer Dryden was in an early version of the PBC!

8:05

If you're not in my timezone:
8:05

― Eloi Wallach (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:05 PM (1 minute ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adF3Lc-g5Ac

I've had Wow on my computer for a few years, finally got around to burning it. (Just downloaded Wow, not the jam album.) I'm not surprised it's not as good as the first, didn't expect it to be, but based on a single listen in the car, it's just not very good at all. Parts of it sounded like David Clayton-Thomas had taken over vocals. I did like this, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t78c5vwjIC4

Yeah, that song is great, there are other good things on "Wow" but they pretty much blew it. The demo(?) versions of "The Place and the Time" and "Bitter Wind" on "Vintage" are both brilliant ... though I like the weirdness of the album version of the latter. This is a weird thread, which is somehow appropriate.

I still like "wow" more than the debut, maybe because it's stranger.

Of course, it may also be because of the extras on the CD version, but hey.

Don Stevenson is now a subway busker in Toronto and seemingly very content about his life..
http://youtu.be/jIvSxA56HP0

<3

Amazing.

I want to be Don Stevenson when I'm 74.

"Because it drives like a motherfucker, and that's where it's at."

https://img.discogs.com/nZjwifemKO1pkyFmtRJqfvLrn3g=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-12919826-1544538686-5094.jpeg.jpg

from last year

When xgau got around to reviewingLive(Sundazed, 2010) last summer, he made a point of mentioning "And everywhere there's Stevenson, reminding everyone to keep it loud and keep it moving." Sounds like qualifications for a subway busker.
Xgau hasn't written about 'em all, not yet, but good takes on these (even cherrypicks Truly Fine Citizen) http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=Moby+Grape

Some more bits here, written later: https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rs/mobygrape-07.php
Intrigued by comment on Moby Grape '69:
...rather than hinting at country rock, it is the very beast, songwriting honorable and presentation flat. So---good source of covers, maybe enough for a whole tribute/improvement album??

sometimes i prefer 69 over s/t

if you or the flaming lips or sean lennon or w/e can improve on “i am not willing” i’d really fucking like to hear it

Not me! Or maybe the ones you mention either. Xgau's not big on country rock, unless you count some of the more rural tracks on Working Man's Dead late-60s Dylan albums, and Gram Parsons (who loathed the term). Plenty of promising young and not-so-young performers nowadays who could use a good song (not their own).

what i meant was that the MG “i am not willing” is imo a near-perfect song that would not benefit much from a reinterpretation

I had no idea Peter Lewis's mother was actually Oscar-winning Hollywood actress Loretta Young. (She was in Orson Welles's The Stranger, one of Frank Borzage's greatest films Man's Castle and won her Oscar for Best Actress in The Farmer's Daughter.) Regardless, guy's had quite a troubled life and it's pretty amazing how he overcame those struggles then went out of his way to take care of his bandmates as well.

Had no idea about that either. Wanted to tell you about a new essay about “Omaha” I heard about that I am looking forward to.

Fairly amazing 3-part interview w Peter Lewis begins here: https://www.craigmorrison.com/spip.php?article65

guy's had quite a troubled life and it's pretty amazing how he overcame those struggles then went out of his way to take care of his bandmates as well.

GREAT read. Thanks for sharing dow.