Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

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I don't know, Chaki. I listen to you FWIW.

this thread needs Jody to put it back on the rails.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 14 February 2004 19:46 (twenty years ago) link

Based on Katy Lied and radio hits, I kind of agree with David Allen's final assessment. At the same time that I think "Everyone's Gone to the Movies" is gorgeous and perfect, I also think "Black Friday" or "Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More" can sound like fairly generic light rock songs with expert performance values. (Possibly great lyrics but I don't usually pay that much attention unless other musical elements draw me in first.) Pleasant, not unengaging, but not terribly affecting or interesting. It seems surprising to me that this would be such a love-or-hate band.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 14 February 2004 21:34 (twenty years ago) link

I will confess that aside from EGTTM, none of the lyrics, insofar as I've even noticed them, have done much for me beyond the level of "That's a clever rhyme".

sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 14 February 2004 21:45 (twenty years ago) link

Check out 'Countdown to Ecstasy' sundar. I think it's their best.

pete s, Saturday, 14 February 2004 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

Lyrically, I can think of few groups from the '70s who are Steely Dan's equal, if any. It goes far beyond clever rhymes, and Fagen is equally skilled at those sad nostalgic numbers, sinister drug tales, and funny sleaze narratives.

Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 16 February 2004 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

Sundar, judging from your faves in the genre, they probably aren't what you look for in a mainstream rock band. I'd be surprised if you really liked them, I think.

Clarke B., Monday, 16 February 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link

Not enough arena in their sound, if ya know what I mean. ;-)

Clarke B., Monday, 16 February 2004 19:50 (twenty years ago) link

six months pass...
revive! i don't know why!

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't believe I missed Clarke's comments last time. That's hilarious.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Steely Dan rocks! "Bodhisattva" is one of the best songs ever written.

I like Steely Dan because they're virtuosos (same goes for the Dave Matthews Band, though lotsa folks around here would disagree with me on that one). Amateur guitar music is not in itself a bad thing, it's just that there's SO GODDAMN MUCH OF IT.

Dammit, somebody out there's gotta make music nobody else can play, right? Music that you just listen to with your mouth open and think, "Jesus! How the FUCK can ANYBODY play that fast?!"

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:14 (nineteen years ago) link

The fellow responsible for the review that thread title come from is a complete fule.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Music that you just listen to with your mouth open and think, "Jesus! How the FUCK can ANYBODY play that fast?!"

Does "Do It Again" or "Ricki Don't Lose That Number" do this for you?

sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link

(And where were you on my John McLaughlin thread? Or anyone for that matter?)

sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 03:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Does "Do It Again" or "Ricki Don't Lose That Number" do this for you?

Well, no, but those are exceptions. Those are both from their first album, and they hadn't really developed their chops yet. Still rule, though! Steely Dan rules!!

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I LOVE STEELY DAN! PITCHFORK FOD!!!!!!!!

AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:30 (nineteen years ago) link

There's a reason Brent D is a laughingstock and sometimes we need a reminder!

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, late to this one. The brilliance of Steely Dan doesn't need my defending, but I will say that my years of greatest Dan love were also my punk-rock years.

briania (briania), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:53 (nineteen years ago) link

And for sinister drug tales, there's...

Charlie Freak had but one thing to call his own
Three weight ounce pure golden ring no precious stone
Five nights without a bite
No place to lay his head
And if nobody takes him in
He'll soon be dead
On the street he spied my face I heard him hail
In a plot of frozen space he told his tale
Poor man, he showed his hand
So righteous was his need
And me so wise I bought his prize
For chicken feed

Newfound cash soon begs to smash a state of mind
Close inspection fast revealed his favorite kind
Poor kid, he overdid it
Embraced a spreading haze
And while he sighed his body died
In fifteen ways

When I heard I grabbed a cab to where he lay
'Round his arm the plastic tag read D.O.A.
Yes Jack, I gave it back
The ring I could not own
Now come my friend I'll take your hand
And lead you home

Used to play a pogo-ized cover of that.

briania (briania), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 04:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I say this every time they come up, and maybe it's ad nauseum, but I think it matters to how I listen to the Dan and how I listen to everything else, but they were my very favourite band between the ages of 8-13 or so. I never knew the 'coke-addled dinosaur' myth, I just plunged right in. I've gone through stages of listening to them less, for sure, but since I picked up all the CD reissues last summer, it's been a fairly continuous dan-fest. Also, spending time on ILM reading these testimonials, esp. from Jody and J0hn; it's quite intoxicating.

I listened to 'Gaucho' tonight while doing dishes; it's my favourite, along with 'Countdown to Ecstasy' and 'Everything Must Go'. 'Katy Lied' is close.

I still haven't gotten over 'Pixeleen'. The bass line moving into the chorus.. i used 'luxury sedan' to describe this one before; so sleek and powerful, 'symmetrical and clean', but maybe limousine is better? and in the best, most evil, sense, not the bullshit up thread. I still can't get at what level of exploitation this song is about, and whether any laws are being broken. maybe that's not the point.. i'm swooning, regardless. No kidding; I've just listened to the damn song 4 times over while writing this. Everything about me is different/Symmetrical and clean

oh, hey, construction of the feminine in 'Green Book' paired with 'Pixeleen' Now where'd we sample those legs/I'm thinking Marilyn 4.0 in the Green Book // She's kinda cute but a little younger/She got the mood and the moves segue into my three times perfect ultrateen // my sleek and soulful cyberqueen, and always, ever Everything about me is different/Symmetrical and clean

derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 05:45 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, stupid Brent D. I remember that review too; it's what finally polarized me against Pitchfork back in the day. J0hn's response upthread is a perfect summation.

derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link

oh, and Gear, i kiss you for your incessant starting of threads re; the Dan and St. Et, my two favourite bands.

derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 06:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Those are both from their first album, and they hadn't really developed their chops yet.

"Rikki" is from the second album, and the "chops" issue is irrelevant because most of the flashy playing in the early years was done by Dias/Baxter/various session guys.

stockholm cindy, montessori emo superstar (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 06:19 (nineteen years ago) link

"Rikki" is from the 3rd album actually.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 07:24 (nineteen years ago) link

"Rikki" is from the 3rd album actually

Oh yeah. My bad. I got that confused with "Reelin' in the Years."

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry, you're right. completely forgot about countdown to ecstasy.

stockholm cindy, montessori emo superstar (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I still need to acquire CTE, especially since a lot of SD enthusiasts swear it's the best one.
I still haven't heard The Royal Scam, Gaucho or the reunion stuff either.

AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

They deserve great praise for having a saxophone player named Cornelius Bumpus

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

i just bought Can't Buy A Thrill on vinyl, and the liner notes alone are k-classic (especially since i have no turntable).

what's up with the snide comments after the song titles, though? some make sense ("Only A Fool Would Say That" - A message cha-cha), but some i can't figure out ("Fire In The Hole" - How's my little girl?).

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 15 September 2004 23:49 (nineteen years ago) link

The Royal Scam is so slept on. "Kid Charlemagne" alone makes it probably their second-best record. The title track has this great, weird John Ford/Cole Porter/National Geographic epic sweep to it, too.

alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Thursday, 16 September 2004 00:46 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm trying to find the commonalities b/t cole porter, john ford, and nat'l geographic....

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Thursday, 16 September 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link

ford=epic hugeness
porter=lyrical tinges
nat'l geo="Colors from their sunny island/From their boats of iron/
They looked upon the promised land/Where surely life was sweet"

alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Thursday, 16 September 2004 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Nice to see such love for the Dan. I don't have much to add except to note that I was pleased recently to see nerd hero Alton Brown big-up Steely Dan in the acknowledgements section of his (great) cookbook, 'I'm Just Here For The Food,' to whit:

"Steely Dan: band/source of good vocabulary words"

Been listening to "Everything Must Go" a lot recently. Pixeleen is one of the best things they've ever done, surely?

retort pouch (retort pouch), Thursday, 16 September 2004 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

"Steely Dan: band/source of good vocabulary words"
Yeah, but could they fit "parthenogenesis" in anywhere? Huh?

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 19 September 2004 17:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Steely Dan is one of the best bands ever -- and as good a choice as any for the best -- for three reasons. They did it their way, the relationship between their music and their lyrics is irreducibly complex, and the Huysmans-like hermeticism that their production and arrangements signify is always in perfect dialectic balance with Donald Fagen's undeniable vocal resemblance to Winnie The Pooh.

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/withdonaldfixed.jpg

Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Sunday, 19 September 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

For the record, the best part of that Pitchfork review is that it never ever mentions a single lyric, not even the one about trying to fuck your cousin. It's as though Fagen were singing in Kobaian, or the reviewer had a form of brain damage worthy of study by Oliver Sacks.

http://www.berklee.edu/commencement/2001/images/Fagen_podium2.jpg

Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 20 September 2004 02:33 (nineteen years ago) link

i just bought Can't Buy A Thrill on vinyl, and the liner notes alone are k-classic

"...spilled their seed on baren ground." indeed. I love all from the first to Aja, but thought Gaucho was pretty hollow. I should get back to it because a lot of people like it. Haven't got either of the new ones, because they seem more Gaucho than pre-Gaucho.

nickn (nickn), Monday, 20 September 2004 02:49 (nineteen years ago) link

haha I could've swore that "Kid Charlemagne" was used as the name of a character/story/whatever by William Gibson, but I'd gotten him mixed up w/Paul Di Filippo! except that William Gibson did have a bunch of Steely Dan references!

etc, Monday, 20 September 2004 03:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Kid Charlemagne didn't originate as a nickname with the Dan, as I recall; the song is about a real-life drug guru in San Francisco. I think he was already termed KC before the song but I could be wrong.

derrick (derrick), Monday, 20 September 2004 04:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Fred Kaplan, in Slate:

Here's another way to read this contrast between Fagen's vocals and the music: A Steely Dan album is a trip through the warped mind of our unreliable narrator (as played by Fagen), and the ultra-polished instrumentals reflect the idealized soundtrack that he hears in his head as the stories and fantasies unspool. (Don't we all, at certain times, to some degree, amble through life with a soundtrack playing in our heads, lending rhythmic drama to the random humdrum?)

As evidence for this interpretation, I direct you to The Nightfly, Fagen's 1982 solo album, not just one of the great pop albums but one of the great pop album covers. The front cover shows Fagen as a disc jockey at 4:09 a.m., chain-smoking Chesterfields, a Sonny Rollins LP on the turntable. The back cover shows a suburban house, one of a row of identical houses, except in this one, a light glistens through an upstairs window. The sky shows the hint of dawn. By inference, it's 4:09 a.m., and the kid upstairs—the only person awake in the neighborhood—is listening to the disc jockey. Fagen's liner notes suggest that The Nightfly is autobiographical. It's about the adolescent Fagen listening in the wee hours to cool jazz on the radio—while also imagining that he's the DJ, "Lester the Nightfly" of "WJAZ," as the album's title song calls him, spinning "sweet music/ … till the sun comes through the skylight." Or maybe it's about Lester, spinning records while reminiscing about the all-night listening sessions of his youth. Either way, the covers (both in gleaming black-and-white) present an image of music as the perpetual soundtrack and the creative fount of an imaginative life.

I would also cite the technical credits (clearly written by Fagen, Becker, or both) on Steely Dan's 1975 album, Katy Lied: "Steely Dan uses a specially constructed 24-channel tape recorder, a 'State-of-the-Art' 36-input computerized-mixdown console … some very expensive German microphones … a Neumann VMS 70 computerized lathe equipped with a variable pitch, variable depth helium cooled head." There's a deliberate stratagem to these gushings. They convey the clear impression (even to a reader who doesn't know what they're talking about) that the boys of Steely Dan get to play with dream-fantasy gear in a dream-fantasy studio: the hi-fi geek's equivalent of driving an Audi TT, lounging in a comfy Eames chair, or dating a girl like Tuesday Weld—to name a few dream-fantasies mentioned by the narrator in some Steely Dan songs. It all reinforces the sense, if only subconsciously, that this record you're listening to is a dream-fantasy, the inner soundtrack to an ordinary guy's secret story, for else how could a voice like Donald Fagen's—in other words, like yours or mine—get backup from a band that sounds so damned impeccable? 

http://patstjohn.com/Graphics/Gallery/Donald_Fagen.jpg

Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 02:25 (nineteen years ago) link

it's amazing how eager steely dan fans are to "rationalize" the backing music. OH NO YOU MIGHT LIKE LIGHT JAZZ OH NO

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 02:29 (nineteen years ago) link

: o

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 02:30 (nineteen years ago) link

having gone thru stages where I simply dismissed Steely Dan as what-was-wrong-with-'70s, now I enjoy them for what they were. They simply wanted to make perfect records with a twist and I can live with that just like I can live with punk records that are far from perfect, whatever that really means.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 15:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Fagen looks like a cross between Ralph Nader and Jeff Goldblum in that B&W photo!

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 15:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I love all from the first to Aja, but thought Gaucho was pretty hollow

this was me from the moment I became infatuated with Becker-Fagen until about 3 months ago. I *still* think it's my least favorite of the original seven (I only wish Darn1elle were around to give me hell for it) but the title track has slowly become one of my favorite tunes ever. Great lyrics, if oblique (but, hey, that's one of SD's primary charms, right?). Is it a gay love triangle? What the hell is a Custerdome? Whatever, it rules.

Will (will), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 16:00 (nineteen years ago) link

From the 8/1/04 NYT Book Review:

To the Editor:

In his review of Hendrik Hertzberg's ''Politics'' (July 4), Richard Brookhiser reveals what seems to be multiple personality disorder. Brookhiser the writer can't help praising Hertzberg's skill (Hertzberg is ''amusing, insightful''; he delights the reader), but then Brookhiser the right-wing hit man pops up with the condemnations (''bland'' and ''boring to read''). Brookhiser's giddy oscillations make him sound like the Nutty Professor and deny your readers a serious review of Hertzberg's book

Donald Fagen
New York

http://www.numbertwopencil.net/graphics/fangen.jpg

Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 03:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah!

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 03:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know what happened to the period at the end of the sentence there -- that's my fault. And I'm 99% certain it's the same Donald Fagen; I mean, 'giddy oscillations'?

Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Monday, 27 September 2004 03:20 (nineteen years ago) link

having gone thru stages where I simply dismissed Steely Dan as what-was-wrong-with-'70s, now I enjoy them for what they were. They simply wanted to make perfect records with a twist and I can live with that just like I can live with punk records that are far from perfect, whatever that really means.

Nothing wrong with liking either approach to making records. Or both. I certainly do.

Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Monday, 27 September 2004 03:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I think people who dislike Steely Dan without having heard them think they're some kind of tedious jazz fusion/cocktail eezee listening hybrid.

That's basically how I see them, though I have heard a few of their songs (because my dad likes them). It really just doesn't sound like something I could get into. Maybe someday...

sleep, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Do you like SONGCRAFT?

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:43 (nineteen years ago) link


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