avant-garde is a catch-all term for people who are doing shit nobody else is doing. This, ok, I'm fine with I suppose. I'm not a semantics nazi. I just don't want her to get a snobby audience, which is the danger when slapping that term onto her stuff.
― eh (fandango), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― eh (fandango), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link
Because it's not, by definition. Also, it's an ambiguous term that tells you nothing about the quality of the music, as describing music in terms of its marketability is quite beside the point.
Never said it was as easy to market as anything, but the moment something is put out to be sold, it's commercial (in whatever degree) by nature.
And Tim Ellison, it's quite influenced by Kora playing. You should listen to a CD called "Kora Melodies From The Republic of The Gambia, West Africa" by Alhaji Bai Konte.
― Turangalila (Salvador), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― eh (fandango), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― FACEBRACE (FACEBRACE), Thursday, 12 October 2006 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link
Ah, it's just a blunderbuss of vitriol, feel free to ignore me. If reviewers are going to dismiss the album on grounds that it's meandering, it's a sign they haven't taken the time to digest it. Perhaps "avant-garde" was the wrong (loaded) term to use, but it takes a while to digest what she's doing here - that's just a fact, not snobbery.
There's also this anti-intellectual mode people slip into that gets me super-defensive - e.g. "I read Joyce's Ulysses, anybody could write that crap, the emperor's got no clothes, blah, blah." Okay, how about respecting the fact that people experience a depth in the work that you're not getting to? You don't have to appreciate it and you don't have to work to appreciate it, but some things are complex. There's plenty of music/art/literature I don't "get" but I don't blame the artist (or pretentious fans - yeah they're irritating but what does that have to do with anything?) for my own inability to get it. Momma had a name for people who trash what they can't understand - ignorant. Was she right, or just on some snobbery trip? (P.S. this has nothing to do with you personally, I'm just on a roll now....)
Regardless of all that, I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure that Rolling Stone is the approriate bellweather of whether this album is any good or not.
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 12 October 2006 17:03 (seventeen years ago) link
There are odd time signatures that are peculiar to African Kora players, as she notes in this interview:
“I’ve spent time with figures transposed from the [African] Kora, where the right hand plays a four beat and the left plays a three, and in between where the two meters cross there is a really strange disorientation and disjunction that immediately upon hearingI wanted to experiment more with...four against seven, four against nine, just playing with different spots rhythmically.”
Her downplaying it is a bit like The Rolling Stones downplaying the influence of the blues. But I understand her point, she has synthesized a bunch of different traditions and stressing the African influence is not completely accurate. She's not doing world music, aping some other culture's genre. But when you listen to "Bridges and Balloons" and then listen to something like Toumani Diabaté's New Ancient Strings, the affinity is profound. The strings drown everything to mundanity.
Yeah, but I've come to terms with them over time. Still would love to hear the Albini solo masters, though.
― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 12 October 2006 17:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 12 October 2006 17:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 12 October 2006 17:52 (seventeen years ago) link
― M. V. (M.V.), Thursday, 12 October 2006 19:53 (seventeen years ago) link
i don't know what i think of this LP now. i think i overpraised it initially.
― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 13 October 2006 01:23 (seventeen years ago) link
(not sure if you're responding to me when you say "she's not aping african music" - if you are, I must not have made myself very clear since we agree completely)
― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 01:27 (seventeen years ago) link
At some point when I have a little time I'd like to comment further on this (and on the "small death" lyric). Duty calls, though.
― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 13 October 2006 11:59 (seventeen years ago) link
― james brooks (j_brooks), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― EZ Snappin (EZSnappin), Friday, 13 October 2006 20:36 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.thewire.co.uk/current/images/273cover.jpg
elsewhere on ILM Marcello calls this "bilge"....
I listened to this right through again the other day, It captivates me wonderfully for the first couple of tracks, all of it, the music, the lyricism, the play of the language & her rhythms but soon... fatigue sets in and it's just not as surprising afterwards. Still very nice, but not rapturous, and lacking a true emotional punch for me. I still don't like this as much as the first album really.
And am I the only person who thinks it sounds basically the same all the way through and that's not really a good thing?
Quite honestly I want her to drop the harp for a while (I find myself feeling her overall sound to be quite tart & unpleasant a lot of the time, more so than her vocals even, and I've already said I'm not amazed by the treacly strings here), and travel somewhere OUT of this pastoral prettiness zone next time... maybe new york? somewhere Urban? THAT would seem more "challenging" to me than this, maybe next album. I HOPE she puts what she's learned/extended upon here to more interesting uses in the future (maybe interspersed with shorter "normal" songs?), I just feel like she's playing up to her audience too much here. The formalities of this record look risky but I don't think the final creative product is, at least not quite as much as people are saying. It's lovely, idillyic and escapist sure, but it's also quite a lot of froth.
Nevertheless I'm glad she's made this record. It at least shows the doubters she's didn't just get lucky first time round. It's accomplished, it's dense and open, flows very naturally BUT I'm yet to be convinced it actually has depth and isn't merely a bit too clever for it's own good. Overrated? absolutely! but by no means worthless. I expect the real "backlash" will come sometime after the inevitable Pitchfork 9.9 (if they can bear to give anything a higher rating than The Hold Steady this year).
― Moderation Request Line (fandango), Friday, 20 October 2006 00:32 (seventeen years ago) link
― Moderation Request Line (fandango), Friday, 20 October 2006 00:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― Moderation Request Line (fandango), Friday, 20 October 2006 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 20 October 2006 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link
also not sure why being able to take it at one sitting is a big issue. I suppose this is your listening preference. I tend to listen to a track of this at a time.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 20 October 2006 01:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 20 October 2006 06:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 20 October 2006 07:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― Dominique (dleone), Saturday, 21 October 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matt Olken (Moodles), Saturday, 21 October 2006 21:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 2 November 2006 19:57 (seventeen years ago) link
― jonathan - stl (jonathan - stl), Thursday, 2 November 2006 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link
― zippezappy (doomed), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 19:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Owen Pallett (Owen Pallett), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 20:23 (seventeen years ago) link
xp
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link
I still find this an admirable, ambitious record, but also a flawed and problematic one. I doubt anyone else is going to nail how I feel about this one closer than the Stylus review. Which gives it a good grade, but reads as similarly conflicted w/r/t to my own feelings about Ys, even if they don't quite stretch to "enchantment".
― new new wave of new wave new rave (fandango), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― max (maxreax), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:16 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:24 (seventeen years ago) link
― max (maxreax), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:38 (seventeen years ago) link
I've only listened to it once so far, but it did sort of remind me of the Phil Ochs song 'Crucifixion' in places. Obviously that's the Van Dyke Parks link in full effect.
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― mike powell (mike powell), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 21:55 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 22:03 (seventeen years ago) link
― mike powell (mike powell), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 22:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― zippezappy (doomed), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 23:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― badg (badg), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 23:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 8 November 2006 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― J (Jay), Thursday, 9 November 2006 00:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 9 November 2006 00:32 (seventeen years ago) link
and on the "bad thing" remark, yesterday i had someone add the 'e' and try to insult her by saying she sounds like lisa simpson--yeah, why IS that bad?
― mox twelve (Mox twleve), Thursday, 9 November 2006 04:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 9 November 2006 09:43 (seventeen years ago) link
ts for misspellings designed to infuriate sub-editors: joanna newsome v missy elliot
(the missy misspelling is far out in front because it has been going on for a DECADE now and shows no sign of slowing down EVEN THOUGH SHE SPELLS HER NAME CORRECTLY ON ALL HER SLEEVES)
i really really want to hear ys but i am not convinced that i'll like it and so am unwilling to spend money on it
― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 9 November 2006 10:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Nedpoleon (NedBeauman), Thursday, 9 November 2006 11:22 (seventeen years ago) link
No one who's heard it here has spent any money on it, it's not out yet!
― Marmot (marmotwolof), Thursday, 9 November 2006 16:09 (seventeen years ago) link