If I remember right, you dislike Nina Simone, but might have been interesting if she covered the Dead, she did so well with L. Cohen, Dylan, George Harrison.
― Mark, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:27 (thirteen years ago) link
i swear i am turning the corner on nina. i'm older!
i just think those songs have been ill-served. they should be known by lots more people! they should be standards! and not just jam band standards. or shaggy bar band standards. i mean, that's fine too. it is truly "folk" music. but they work in so many ways.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, I hear you. Which Dead song is closest to being a standard, do you think? Seems like "Friend of the Devil".
― Mark, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:34 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah, and sometimes you get that perfect marriage. tom dylan petty doing friend of the dylan for instance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT_HwzlroeM
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:37 (thirteen years ago) link
(petty live box thing one of the best live things i've heard in a zillion years. he should just do an album of dead covers. that would kick ass.)
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:38 (thirteen years ago) link
ripple has been covered a lot too. bluegrass/alt-country/etc covers of it have been pretty popular for years.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:39 (thirteen years ago) link
then of course there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGwMmwppLh4
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Lyle Lovett's "Friend of the Devil" on that Deadicated disc in the early 90s was amazing. Actually, lots of good stuf on that comp.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:43 (thirteen years ago) link
scott otm in locating much of the Dead's awesomeness with Robert Hunter; he was a great lyricist...
― music loves drugs (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Speaking still as someone not really compelled much at all by the band -- or, as I know I've beaten into the ground enough times, not primarily concerned by lyrics in general -- but nonetheless: Hunter's an interesting character from what I can tell -- if anything it seems that whatever edge Josh mentions he wants out of the band might best be found in his words. Probably a stretch, I don't know, but something about the jaundiced view of a number of his lyrics (or most of them?) might place him more in alliance with Steely Dan or Zevon, perhaps. Strip everything else aside and something like this is pretty frickin' bleak:
Sitting and staring out of the hotel windowGot a tip they're gonna kick the door in againLike to get some sleep before I travelBut if you got a warrant I guess you're gonna come in
So as Scott notes, the idea that the songs themselves have been ill-served rings true for me.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:44 (thirteen years ago) link
also: lol Sublime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cg2O4SsHQw
(I actually like ^this a lot)
― music loves drugs (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:45 (thirteen years ago) link
Ned OTM for bringing Truckin in; that & Ripple are probably Dead's songs closest to achieveing 'popular standard' status...
― music loves drugs (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:47 (thirteen years ago) link
(then i have those moments where i think - damn why couldn't the new riders have been jerry's band!?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJdq0OcRK3o
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:49 (thirteen years ago) link
if you don't like the dead at least give the new riders a chance! so great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAuh6HjiiaM
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:51 (thirteen years ago) link
"Ripple" as a lyric almost makes me think of "Rubber Ring" by the Smiths -- same sense of an uneasy relationship between obsessive fanbase and suspicious creator already looking on down the line, though a bit more generous in Hunter's case, if not by too much more. (Mott the Hoople's "I Wish I Was Your Mother" might also slot in here...or maybe I'm thinking of "The Moon Upstairs.")
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
there's gotta be a good goth cover of "it must have been the roses", no, ned?
Annie laid her head down in the rosesShe had ribbons, ribbons, ribbons in her long brown hairI don't know, maybe it was the rosesAll I know, I could not leave her there
I don't know, it must have been the rosesThe roses or the ribbons in her long brown hairI don't know, maybe it was the rosesAll I know, I could not leave her there
Ten years the waves rolled the ships home from the seaThinking well how it may blow in all good companyIf I tell another what your own lips told to meLet me lay 'neath the roses and my eyes no longer see
One pane of glass in the windowNo one is complaining, though, come in and shut the doorFaded is the crimson from the ribbons that she woreAnd it's strange how no one comes round any more
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago) link
Will a hippie/demi-goth type on ukelele with a cat do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTS9PvKMWIg
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:09 (thirteen years ago) link
cat definitely trying to get to the knives on the counter...
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Boo to this. I've always felt the Band captured exceptionally well what I felt the Dead was frequently aiming for.
To me The Band seem to indulge so much more in the shapeless countrified jamming that the Dead are accused of (talking albums here, I don't give a shit about live stuff). They didn't really have the songs to back it up. And their attempts at old-timey folkiness in the lyrics "I work for the union 'cause she's so good to me" etc. come across as way more forced than the Dead. But as far as great poppy songs, I would give them The Weight, Cripple Creek, The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down... what else? vs. well, to me, nearly every song on AB & WD is better and more catchy than any of those Band songs, so I can't really make a list. I mean, at the very most conservative list, you have to give them Cream Puff War, Friend of the Devil, Truckin, St. Stephen, Casey Jones, but if you like sort of country rock Americana, I don't know how you couldn't get behind Dupree's Diamond Blues, Doin' That Rag, Dire Wolf, shit I dunno, again, basically every song on Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.
― wk, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:12 (thirteen years ago) link
^^OTM I just picked up American Beauty used and I've one of those "Canonical album blowing you away experiences". And I've been thinking back to The Band, who've been a frequently cited influence on this era of the Dead. I'm really starting to believe that both the Dead and Little Feat did an amzing job picking up the reigns as it were. They were doing The Band's schtick way better than The Band did from there on out, and arguably bettering their peak.
That said, I'm also wondering about Doug Sahm (and the Sir Douglas Quintet)'s influence on this era of the Dead. They were tight at the time and Dan Healy engineered much of the SDQ stuff of the era. It's a bit lighter fare, but that "back to roots" approach fels the same. It's just that Doug never gets cited.
― Handjobs for a sport (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 04:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Sir Douglas Quintet was cool, but also the Charlatans were a pretty major influence on all of the SF bands, doing not only the jangly folk rock thing, but often a more country sound. Not to mention the full victorian cowboy getup. Also, the Bradley's Barn album by the Beau Brummels.
― wk, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 05:03 (thirteen years ago) link
― EZ Snappin, Tuesday, April 19, 2011
otm. los lobos, suzanne vega, cowboy junkies and jane's addiction all kill it on that one too iirc.
that comp and some of ryan adams' dead-inspired stuff ("magnolia mountain" in particular) occasionally makes me think i might come around on, y'know, the dead. but then no.
― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 05:21 (thirteen years ago) link
oh here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDgPZScj5Ak
will rep for Ministry's "Friend of the Devil" from Bridge Benefit 1994
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGwMmwppLh4&sns=em
Al's voice is a nice surprise on this
― VegemiteGrrl, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 05:25 (thirteen years ago) link
The Band only has a few songs that are as good as anything on WD
Don't know where to start with this......
There is nothing the Dead ever did that matches four bars of Levon Helm's drumming, never mind the songs, or the singing, or the rest of the playing.
Someone said up there that the like of me hadn't heard enough Dead and were posing - I reckon it's the opposite prob with deadheads: they haven't heard enough other music - or listened properly - and imagine the tepid 'ideas' of the Dead amount to some kind of something. Like Ayn Rand fans who think she's a philosopher, because they've never read any proper philosophy.
― I'm Street but I Know my Roots (sonofstan), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 05:31 (thirteen years ago) link
There is nothing the Dead ever did that matches four bars of Levon Helm's drumming
Yeah, he's a killer drummer and has a great voice too.
But I was focusing on the songs because the main criticism of the Dead is that their music was nothing but a bunch of stoned aimless noodling. And there's certainly a lot of that stuff. Personally I don't care for it and don't listen to it. As I said upthread 5 years ago, I think the conventional wisdom about the band is backwards. The live stuff is pretty tedious but they had a good run of 4 or 5 classic albums with some really great songs. I just don't get how people can ignore that. Sure some live bootleg from 1978 is going to be boring as hell. Yeah, they're a bunch of smelly beardo hippies with annoying fans. But if you like any similar music at all (west coast psych, country rock) and can't recognize that the Dead recorded some great stuff that easily stands up to their contemporaries, then I think you're blinded by a prejudice against their fans, or you simply haven't heard the good stuff. As I'm sure I've said elsewhere here before, I ignored the Dead for ages and bought tons of lame third rate psych and garage reissues before realizing that super obvious stuff like the Dead was actually great.
― wk, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 05:49 (thirteen years ago) link
I reckon it's the opposite prob with deadheads: they haven't heard enough other music - or listened properly - and imagine the tepid 'ideas' of the Dead amount to some kind of something.
Also, I think that's probably true in the general population, with any random deadhead you might meet. But I think the opposite is probably true among ILMers. The default stance is to dislike and avoid the Dead, so it actually might be the people who have already gone through everything else who eventually make their way to the Dead. That seems to be borne out by some of the accounts in this thread of people who gradually got around to liking them.
Anthem of the Sun and Aoxomoxoa aren't my favorite psych albums but they're probably in my top 50 or maybe top 100. And I like that kind of music enough to have an appetite for the stuff that's way down the list. Workingman's Dead and American Beauty on the other hand are probably in my top 10 for country rock. Or at least one of the two. But I'll admit that's an area where I haven't dug too deep.
― wk, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 06:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Europe 72 def sounds like the Band but better. Album that American Beauty most reminds me of is After the Gold Rush, esp its second side...
― music loves drugs (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 06:13 (thirteen years ago) link
The Band, like the Dead, dropped off fast after a couple albums, as a studio entity at least. Live, it kept kicking for a while. I guess I just like the musical personality of the Band and its players better than the Dead, Garcia aside, whom I've always liked as a guitarist.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 11:55 (thirteen years ago) link
ppl seem ready to rep for everything up to and including 'terrapin station', i think. on the other hand, i'm not really convinced it's true of the band, either ...
i think i like the idea of levon helm or of garth hudson more than i do pigpen or phil lesh. but i like the three-percussionists-paying-various-levels-of-attention-plus-bassist-refuses-play-a-bassline thing that's the backbone of '68-'71 dead a lot; the band's live setup being, let's say, less well documented, i'm not sure i can say anything about them as an ensemble outside of the (fairly worked-over) studio settings
otoh i think i like the idea of garcia a lot more than that of robbie robertson, but robertson's concise statements on 'king harvest' or whatever are kind of jaw-dropping for me in a way that garcia doesn't do. or have a focus that garcia playing around 'dark star' or 'morning dew' for 15 minutes doesn't. but, i mean, that's kind of an obvious thing to say.
― thomp, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 13:07 (thirteen years ago) link
the dead are one of those acts that when you listen to them you can easily listen to them for a week and snap into the mindset of people who listen to nothing but, i think. like the fall.
― thomp, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 13:08 (thirteen years ago) link
http://youtu.be/gvv970ocLaM
― Mark, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 13:14 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvv970ocLaM
― Mark, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 13:15 (thirteen years ago) link
What Dead stuff do you like Bill Magill?
― music loves drugs (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, April 19, 2011 8:26 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Sorry Drugs, i cut out of this discussion. I love a lot of the '69/'70 stuff, Live Dead, Harpur, though Ive never been a big Pigpen guy (except Lovelight). My other favorite years are '72 (like many others, Europe'72 was an initial favorite), '74 (esp. the Boston show) and '77 (it's to the point of cliche, but the Cornell thing is fucking awesome, it's recorded so well too). After that, i kind of lose the plot.
― Thraft of Cleveland (Bill Magill), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:16 (thirteen years ago) link
hey can people participating in interesting music discussions stop saying stupid shit like "Bach's nose hairs wrote better music than Mick Jagger's entire family"? trope has been played out for at least 30 years.
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:47 (thirteen years ago) link
The Band, like the Dead, dropped off fast after a couple albums, as a studio entity at least.probably would've agreed with you until recently, but I've been digging into some of the post-classic eras of both of these bands, and there is plenty of good stuff. that might be low expectations talking, to some extent.
― tylerw, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link
lol I see the rest of your post is riddled with I-don't-actually-have-an-argument-so-I-condescend garbage, never mind - when you want to actually talk about music with people who've doubtless heard & understood as much of it as you have, come back to this thread, til then I think everybody gets it - you don't dig the Grateful Dead and you think people who have don't have your penetrating insight into music - cool, gotcha - now fuck off
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link
If there was an interesting music discussion on ILM we could find out. #jokes bruv
― the wages of sin is about tree fiddy (WmC), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:51 (thirteen years ago) link
lol
― five gone cats from Boston (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:52 (thirteen years ago) link
But your point is otm, this "your team sucks, my team will make the playoffs" shit is useless.
― the wages of sin is about tree fiddy (WmC), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:53 (thirteen years ago) link
the Dead suckILM sucksyou suck
^^^ multiple choice
― Euler, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:54 (thirteen years ago) link
they haven't heard enough other music - or listened properly - and imagine the tepid 'ideas' of the Dead amount to some kind of something.
this does describe my relationship with Phish between 1993 and 1999 though. not to disparage phish as much as to disparage the lack of breadth in my listening habits at the time.
― cia never wore tie-dyes (kkvgz), Wednesday, 20 April 2011 14:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i've said it before, but a really good overview of everything good about the dead can be found on the what a long strange trip its been double lp. it definitely worked for me when i was 16. i had never listened to them and i bought that and dead set and was immediately a fan of the songs on there.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:03 (thirteen years ago) link
That's what sold me too at around the same age! Was years before I went further into the catalog, but it did get me to a show.
― EZ Snappin, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:05 (thirteen years ago) link
okay i checked this thread and i've basically repeated my same party line over and over again over a period of years. i really am a deadhead.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:23 (thirteen years ago) link
beardo beach house neu-age people should check out this album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uenrMQnEIU8
and this one too:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7St4jD20p0o/RifaY_SKRfI/AAAAAAAADZo/lYN_Ri2wkxo/s400/seastones.jpg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
"a really good overview of everything good about the dead can be found on the what a long strange trip its been double lp"
it worked in the same way for me: and albums like Blues for Allah are pretty much untouchable.
― Marco Damiani, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
seastones cd comes with an alternate take of the piece that is great too.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:40 (thirteen years ago) link
seastones is rad
― mizzell, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:42 (thirteen years ago) link
love those 74 shows where phil and ned performed Seastones between the first and second sets
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 20 April 2011 15:45 (thirteen years ago) link