ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

the quieter voice in a conversation

also lol at the idea that my voice is louder than GLAAD or Tegan and Sara or even yours dude

like nobody knows who the fuck I am and outside of the 10 people reading this thread nobody cares either, so let's stop identifying me as the hegemonic oppressor and shit

there you go again, being The Man and telling us all what to do

o rly

http://www.aeronewsdaily.com/122909.jpg

"works/doesn't work" isn't pertinent in any way & you know it - nothing anybody can do will persuade Tyler that he should be more considerate - nobody's trying to make that effect, in any way - Tegan & Sara as croup points out is calling guys like yrself out for bending over backwards to tell people how they shouldn't feel when they're being insulted & marginalized - you are speaking on behalf of the hegemony here; you've taken it upon yourself to go "lol, you're offended!" at somebody who just expressed her opinion - that makes you the bad guy as far as I'm concerned & as we discussed earlier, your privilege counts as privilege whether you've got a lot of weight to throw around or just the small-stakes of a meaningless thread

the "quieter voice" is Sara Q btw - I'm loud as fuck and everybody knows it because of my great popularity & influence

there's ample evidence that this kind of complaining does not achieve the intended effect.

― underrated earl sweatshirt fans i have boned (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 19, 2011 11:07 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, i dunno. "ample evidence" is a phrase that sounds meaningful, but is hard to pin down. i'd say there's good evidence of this sort of protest working and not working, in various ways, in various situations. too complex a situation to summarize with appeals to evidence in general.

The funny thing about people like Scott saying "huh I guess these people freaking out over OF have never heard of the rich history of misogyny & homophobia in rap" is that you could just as easily say "gee, every critic going apeshit over Tyler's mix of violent, oppressive bile and weird-ass vulnerability hasn't heard Schooly D"

c'mon dude how many times do you have to see this play out? Alice Cooper, the Sex Pistols, Public Enemy, NWA/Cube, Ice-T - all unforgivably offensive/transgressive/dangerous in their day, now lauded as upstanding citizens that made groundbreaking work. Public displays of approbation just don't work when it comes to this kind of thing.

^ actually agree with shakey on this, though I guess in sara & tegan's case it could be said it's a way for them to bond with the disenfranchised elements of their audience over the sucky facticity of tyler's popularity, your silence will not protect you etc, having an "effect" might not even be part of the equation for them besides speaking out, idk

although you know the message was attributed to sara, for all we know tegan is bumping goblin 24/7

"works/doesn't work" isn't pertinent in any way & you know it - nothing anybody can do will persuade Tyler that he should be more considerate - nobody's trying to make that effect, in any way

I really don't get this logic. why say anything at all then?

Tegan & Sara as croup points out is calling guys like yrself out for bending over backwards to tell people how they shouldn't feel when they're being insulted & marginalized

I'm not bending over backwards. they feel insulted/marginalized, hey that's their right. I too, am insulted and marginalized by things, and it sucks to feel that way. but when they step into the public arena to try and exercise some kind of influence, that's a different thing. except you're saying they (and GLAAD?) aren't trying to exercise influence...? idgi
xxxp

yeah, anthony, i guess i always find it a little weird when ONE thing gets all the attention or vitriol or whatever. and then it just makes me wonder if people are paying attention or something. cuz this country is kinda dripping with violent shit and has been forever. real, fantasy, and every other kind of violence. but maybe that one thing or one example is what people need to rally around and work to change whatever it is they want to change. tyler is the poster child at this point in time.

xp they're trying to tell people who minimize the hatefulness of misogyny and homophobia to cut it the fuck out or at least think about what the effect is on people when minimize those things

you're telling them "lol you're stupid" for giving a shit

yeah, anthony, i guess i always find it a little weird when ONE thing gets all the attention or vitriol or whatever. and then it just makes me wonder if people are paying attention or something.

but this also goes both ways! if this shit is too old hat to get offended by, how is it not too old hat for fans to get excited about

I dunno about you but "we listened to this record and we were personally hurt by it!" was not the message I got from that GLAAD press release

xxxp

why say anything at all then?

to raise awareness and promote a point of view

and yeah tyler's just a cresting-above moment - shit is endemic/epidemic/not-new - and "how come this is interesting to you when it's in rap music and the ingrained misogyny of popular culture doesn't really reach you?" is a valid question for sure - but the one doesn't cancel the other out, or respond in a meaningful way really - it's just an additional point, not a countering one

although you know the message was attributed to sara, for all we know tegan is bumping goblin 24/7

― oh! me so brodie (Edward III), Thursday, May 19, 2011 1:18 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fwiw teegs like shabazz palaces a lot more, told me when i ran into her backstage at broken bells

doesn't it make more sense to get annoyed by Yet Another Misogynist Homophobic Rap Hype if you know your history than to wild out to it?

you're telling them "lol you're stupid" for giving a shit

I guess I kinda am. I can tell them from experience that I am a happier person for ignoring works of art that are specifically attempting to get a rise out of people like me.

xp

shakey do you refuse to acknowledge that their goal was to ask their peers to think about what they're getting off on, rather than to confront tyler himself

unless you think pitchfork's just trying to get a rise out of them

shakey do you refuse to acknowledge that their goal was to ask their peers to think about what they're getting off on

seems like kind of a funny thing to ask of their peers when their peers appear to already be doing an awful lot of talking/thinking/writing about these guys tbh. but what do I know - sum total of blog posts/reviews I have read about this band = 2. maybe most of the articles about them do not address the homophobiz/violence/mysogyny. I kind of doubt it tho, it seems awful central to their music.

maybe they meant "think harder"

I do wonder what Syd tha Kid makes of all this.

I guess I kinda am. I can tell them from experience that I am a happier person for ignoring works of art that are specifically attempting to get a rise out of people like me.

they're not "people like you" - you're a straight white privileged lefty - they're women & queer - it's easy for you to ignore homophobia and misogyny - neither one impacts you directly as a person - that's what privilege is all about

I can tell them from experience that I am a happier person for ignoring works of art that are specifically attempting to get a rise out of people like me.

this is called "privilege"

xp!

uh I was referring to those works of art that ARE designed specifically to get a rise out of people like me (which is a different set of works than those that are designed to get a rise out of people like Tegan & Sara). I guess that wasn't clear...?

xp

unless you are seriously arguing that there are not works of art out there that are specifically intended to get a rise out of me, because um... there are.

are they secret?

i don't have access to jaymc's xls so color me curious

do I need to make a list? now who's oppressing who here lol

hint: I ALREADY CITED ONE on this very thread

it's like if I'm the guy getting worked up about Odd Future - you can say to me, "oh look, what the fuck do you care, how are they offending you personally" and you've got a valid point - but when you start talking down to people who're squarely under attack if misogyny and homophobia are in play, who're only saying "consider what you're praising when you praise this: something that attacks me personally" - then you're using your privilege to dismiss the concerns of marginalized ppl - and that is straight fucking bullshit imo

shakey mo, it might be worth pointing out that tegan & sara live in a country that does not even view them as full human beings with the same civil rights as straight people

TRUST ME guys...when I say these lesbians would be happier just shutting up and letting their peers mindlessly get off and chronicle the actions of guys who unrepentantly treat them like shit, I know of WHICH I SPEAK. TRUST.

shakey, works of art designed to get a rise out of straight white men tend not to do so by specifically using the language of an entrenched culture of violence against them

I am pretty sure Shakey is talking about being Jewish (no jaymc)

dude googleproof that shit

hey you know who else forced jews to identify themselves publicly HITLER

hope you are happy now guys

big difference is that, as a straight white middle class american male, there are TONS of things that can and even intend to offend me, get a rise out of me or w/e - but i'm basically immune to systematic oppression. therefore, it's easy to discount my own sense of outrage - those that offend me lack a weapon with which they might really hurt me, their bark lacks bite.

for those in less privileged and empowered positions, the luxury of indifference isn't so easily available.

surely someone on the Internet has made an oppression pyramid already so that we don't have to

tegan & sara live in a country that does not even view them as full human beings with the same civil rights as straight people

Canada?

harper has really changed shit up there

letting their peers mindlessly get off

is this really what's going on? are we talking about critics/musicians here? cuz that's a specific subset of the larger set of OF's audience. and they don't seem to be approaching this very mindlessly from what I can tell

and chronicle the actions of guys who unrepentantly treat them like shit

are you saying Tyler treats Syd like shit? really now

surely someone on the Internet has made an oppression pyramid already so that we don't have to

^^^

man i don't know what OF defenders would do if Syd The Kid wasn't there

If OF didn't find a lesbian to approve of their message, rock critics would have had to invent her

+: I found two very amusing pics by GISing "oppression pyramid" which will follow in separate posts
-: however the first hit was an Abu Ghraib pic I had hoped to not see again

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo36/getsmartwakeup/Pyramidonfrontofbuilding.jpg