Let's talk about the new Streets album A GRAND DON'T COME FOR FREE.

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Yeeps.

Listening to the album all the way through now -- unsurprisingly I'm not as interested in narrative as I am in sound. The hollowness is both appealing and a bit stifling -- this is hardly an original comparison, but sometimes it makes me think of early Specials songs squashed completely flat.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 May 2004 20:12 (twenty years ago) link

I got this yesterday. Haven't listened to the whole thing yet, but from what I've heard, it's a big improvement over OPM.

o. nate (onate), Sunday, 23 May 2004 22:52 (twenty years ago) link

Ha ha actually Mitch everything I wrote above is really stilted and kinda obvious so perhaps your sarcasm was appropriate!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago) link

i read more into it than "the beat is more than just the beat" then. the first thing that struck me about the beats was that i couldn't pigeonhole most of them into subgenres; so i thought of them as being nondescript rather than tailored specifically for the lyrics. then you brought up the opposite point and the snare patterns themselves started to read like narratives of their own, as if he wasn't just using them to complement the narrative but to make grooves that would tell more of the story. i'm sure this in itself isn't a first, but as far as dance-based stuff from the past decade or so goes, it feels new.

in any case, i got excited because it's cool to suddenly like a record a lot more, not because it was an earthshaking revelation. maybe this is why cautiously detached sarcasm rules the day on ILM -_-

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

maybe.

m. (mitchlnw), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:30 (twenty years ago) link

(ha jess, i think i've confused this wacom pad sitting in my lap with some massive extended electronic penis and am only now acting on years of repressed cyberrage, drunk on digital male vigour.)

(alternatively, i need to get some sleep.) (or write an undie-hop song.)

m. (mitchlnw), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:35 (twenty years ago) link

No Ryan I totally sympathise with your reaction - it's great to have those little revelations where the record suddenly opens up. I just wish I could express the idea a bit better, cos I think there's a *lot* of interesting stuff that can be said about the music on A Grand... (which, due to the vagaries of the story, is likely to be ignored or deemphasised), but I'm also wary of falling into the trap of simply creating a Skinner vs other hip hop dichotomy.

An interesting line of investigation might be: what precedents *are* there for this sort of thing? I sort of wonder if there's a general trend towards this at the moment because something like "Slow Jamz" (and indeed a lot of the sped-up soul stuff) fits this mould quite well in the sense of the groove and subject matter playing off against eachother. But I wonder - and something like Missy's "Back in the Day" is relevant here too - is at a tendency that has largely been confined to music which expressly talks about other music, hence making sample-based intertextuality somewhat more openly purposeful.?

And is it a practice that is (for reasons of practicality if nothing else) largely confined to producers who also rap/sing and vice versa?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:38 (twenty years ago) link

it's definitely left largely to vocalist/producer switch-hitters, simply due to the mechanics of creating most hip hop (and grime, i imagine, though to a lesser extent) where you literally have producers brought in as hired guns.

not to throw a negative connotation on that; at the very least the blueprint tells us that a successful album can be created by running down hot producers, handing over cash and rocking the results.

but this is at work in the rock realm too- see the tradition of the band jamming out a tune before the vocalist shows up, having worked out the entire sound. concept albums or even songs- where what's happening musically relates to and comments on directly what's happening in the lyrics- are extremely difficult to construct. and usually sacrifice pure musical thrill along the way.

.rob (rgeary), Monday, 24 May 2004 03:45 (twenty years ago) link

the patched-over version of bridging this gap that i hate is dr dre (and even worse, eminem's) trick of adding sound effects at the end of every bar that cartoonishly illustrate every line. it almost works sometime, but it's a kludge to get an otherwise unrelated beat to interact directly with the lyrics.

.rob (rgeary), Monday, 24 May 2004 03:46 (twenty years ago) link

to all those who only have downloaded copies of this record, well you should probably buy it but i'll leave that to your conscience; i just thought that some people might not be aware that the early leaks weren't perfect rips and had glitches and the intro to 'get out of my house' was missing. copies marked retail don't. just saying coz that intro is rather good.

myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:20 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah - I was excited to hear the first 20 seconds of 'Get Out Of My House' on the radio.

N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:22 (twenty years ago) link

IMO a big part of what made the "Slow Jamz" track so fitting to the mood was that wisp of female vocal dancing over the beat. but hip-hop has never seemed to lend itself to the sort of groove articulation that Skinner uses here, because it still needs to adhere to that downward bap/stomp/nod/etc (even with approaches as complex as Timbaland et al's). whereas the intrinsic nervousness of garage rhythms allows him to throw his beats around like he's fully aware of each snare, to such an extent that the grooves are convoluted just beyond danceability, into allegory.

ryan kuo (ryan kuo), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:52 (twenty years ago) link

Also: what he's done with 'groove', he's done with 'flow' (to some extent at least).

Tim (Tim), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:57 (twenty years ago) link

"the intrinsic nervousness of garage rhythms allows him to throw his beats around like he's fully aware of each snare, to such an extent that the grooves are convoluted just beyond danceability, into allegory."

Ha ha yes I was just thinking that the best example of a beat working in the same way in hip hop that I could think of was "Hovi Baby", which performs a similar feat of rejecting the dictates of an ordinary groove entirely. Perhaps beats have to be "useless" in order to qualify for this sort of narratological significace?

Yeah you're right Tim - I don't really hear the alleged "stiltedness" of Skinner's vocals on this because it just seems like he's talking in the manner he would if he were actually in the situation he presents himself as being in; it's just every so often he'll rhyme a word. A better angle than the "poetry" line that critics trot out might be single-actor monologue performances.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 24 May 2004 21:28 (twenty years ago) link

OPM was excellent. AGDCFF is dreadful. A study in the pathetic fallacy, it oscillates rhythmlessly between sentimentality and banality. It is literally--and I mean literally--the worst case of sophomore slump mine ears have ever heard.

MV, Monday, 24 May 2004 22:49 (twenty years ago) link

That put-down sounds painstakingly constructed.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:13 (twenty years ago) link

It is literally--and I mean literally--the worst case of sophomore slump mine ears have ever heard.

Why do you emphasize "literally" so much? How else can it be taken?

King Kobra (King Kobra), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 00:19 (twenty years ago) link

One thing about this groove/subject matter interrelationship thing is that it's very much a double-or-nothing move: these grooves *only* work if you're in the mood to be seduced by the story and the rapping at the same time (kinda vice versa too). They're so co-dependent - it's hard to imagine people listening to this album and saying "yeah I like the music but the rapping is crap" as so many did for OPM (although strangely I *have* seen people do this so maybe my analysis is off!). I listened to the album again last night and maybe I just wasn't in the mood or had listened to it too much over a short space of time but even stuff which mostly tears me up like "Blinded By The Light" just passed right by me on both a lyrical, vocal and musical level (although I still almost cracked at the first chorus of the second "Empty Cans").

On one level I bitterly resent the construction of the album because it's gotten to a zone of dangerous familiarity in less than a fortnight when The Avalanches took me almost six months!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 27 May 2004 07:11 (twenty years ago) link

i've barely listened to it ;)

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 27 May 2004 08:43 (twenty years ago) link

I knew I was making a mistake overdosing on it but I couldn't help myself!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 27 May 2004 10:34 (twenty years ago) link

Ok, so I've heard three great albums this year now.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 30 May 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago) link

is there any effort to really push this in the States? I think "Fit And You Know It" and "Dry Your Eyes" could both actually be small-size hits.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 30 May 2004 16:52 (twenty years ago) link

I only just bought this! I am slow. It is blinding, blinding.

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 30 May 2004 17:16 (twenty years ago) link

It's weird how identification seems so crucial with them, it never seems to matter with anyone else. Like, OPM left me completely cold when it came out, but eighteen months of geezafication later I listened to it again, and loved it. And now, this is my album of the year. "My jeans felt a bit tight" is like the most perfectly delivered line in pop or something.

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 30 May 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago) link

It really is.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 30 May 2004 17:32 (twenty years ago) link

I'm curious to revisit OPM but I doubt I'll grow to love it (even though I liked this album immediately). The beats on that album occasionally annoyed (the worst on this one just leave me to focus on the words), the chorus hooks weren't as funny, he did a lot more mere boasting. There's a lot of evolution between "It's Too Late" and "Dry Your Eyes" and I'm really impressed. I was respectfully indifferent about this guy before but I love him now.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 30 May 2004 17:40 (twenty years ago) link

i think this album is terrific - been listening to it constantly these past few days. Just my two pennies.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 30 May 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago) link

I'm pleased that this album seems to be winning people over from all ends of the ILX spectrum.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 30 May 2004 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

i wish i liked it more than i seem to. i think i overdid it like tim, though... let me wait a while.

m. (mitchlnw), Monday, 31 May 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...
does this album remind anyone else of disco inferno or am I nuts?

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 14 June 2004 22:41 (twenty years ago) link

?

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 22:45 (twenty years ago) link

I really like "Get Out OF My House" - she sounds really imposing and scarey!

dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 14 June 2004 22:49 (twenty years ago) link

blinded by the lights in particular. I'm not sure why.

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 14 June 2004 22:50 (twenty years ago) link

fit but you know it sounds like It's a Kids World!

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 14 June 2004 22:51 (twenty years ago) link

Yes you are nuts. But a good nuts. ;-)

This seems as good a time as any to note that our own Tico Tico has an excellent feature length piece on the album that's up at the Seattle Weekly.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 23:01 (twenty years ago) link

I miss Tico. :(

AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago) link

He hovers over us all like a kind spirit.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 14 June 2004 23:20 (twenty years ago) link

I can see the Disco Inferno link sorta - there's a sense of particular sounds/riffs being used for their emotional impact in a similar manner, and Mike Skinner can get very Ian Crause in his more serious/melancholic moments.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 01:33 (twenty years ago) link

Hmm...hmm! I will have to ponder this a bit more. There's a distinct difference in my head to how the two separately use language -- not just a matter of singing styles or vocabulary, more like how the words work with/against the music in question.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 June 2004 01:36 (twenty years ago) link

three months pass...
I avoided this album for months because I was afraid it wouldn't measure up. I was wrong. Incredibly, completely, totally wrong. It's magnificent.

J (Jay), Friday, 24 September 2004 22:49 (nineteen years ago) link

i keep listening to it. everytime i get chills at the point in empty cans when he finds the money.
totally incredible record.
I'd like to read interviews with him, anyone have reccomendations?

Magic City (ano ano), Friday, 24 September 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

totally incredible record.

YES! IT IS!

My opinion of it has changed not a whit in the past four months. It really is one of the greatest albums I've ever heard in my entire life.

Mr. Snrub, Friday, 24 September 2004 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

A Review of "A Grand Don't Come for Free" in the Style of "A Grand Don't Come for Free":

I-was-check-ing-some-new-tracks-from-the-streets'-brand-new-al-BUM
you-might-say-that-I-did-not-re-ally-like-it-ve-ry-MUCH

Hurting, Saturday, 25 September 2004 18:09 (nineteen years ago) link

This has not aged very well for me at all.
I was all on the bandwagon at first, I loved it.

Seriously diminishing returns.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Saturday, 25 September 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I think that's a function of the album's style - it's not nearly as fun once you already know the story inside out, but I think replays 1 through 10 are pretty amazing.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 26 September 2004 04:16 (nineteen years ago) link

This is probably just a function of the way I listen to things but I find the story as such easy to tune out aside from the TV bit, though I've only heard the album in full twice or so. That said the Dizzee album is much better and in "Imagine" it has more emotional bite.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 26 September 2004 05:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Ned and Tim both OTM.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Sunday, 26 September 2004 06:18 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...
Okay, I am FINALLY listening to this all the way through and I'm having to grit my teeth and concentrate to keep from turning it off. This album is incredibly grating to me, going beyond the ennui of the first album and into ARGH I HATE YOU territory.

So yeah, The Streets are not for me. (caveat: "Not Addicted" is actually great but mainly for the hook)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate this album even more than I did upthread. Really, really hate it. Hate hate hate.

The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:06 (nineteen years ago) link

(ok "What Is He Thinking" is decent too)

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 22:17 (nineteen years ago) link


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