search: pop songs with weird time signatures and metric shifts

Well, like you said, you could notate it any number of ways. I wouldn't be very surprised if the parts for the different players (strings vs. brass vs. guitar or bass or drums if you bothered to write those down) were notated in different ways, which makes the argument about how "the song" would be written somewhat moot. Overall though I still feel it as duple time.

http://www.9thx.com/content-thumbs/d1f95e1dd0402783153936798e06e4512
Three is a magic number.

Ringo is probably playing it smart by staying simple and letting the other instruments state the 8th note feel.
Which was an especially smooth move given that if he screwed up, hundreds of millions of people would see him do so on live television.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can see him fudge what he's doing on that 7th beat at least once, in terms of kick-or-snare. It just doesn't really matter enough to call it a "mistake." (Put a percussionist's arm right next to him would seem to be doing ... not what he's doing.)

Put = But

http://www.delafont.com/music_acts/Music_Images/delasoul-album-three.jpg
How high is the water, Mama?

http://www.retrojunk.com/img/art-images/nick_lowe_coolf.jpg
I remember the night they put a percussionist's right arm

a percussionist's arm right next to him would seem to be doing ... not what he's doing.

yeah there are a couple different percussion parts going on. i haven't tried to work out the different bits but ringo's just doing one of them.

as for who's doing the swinging, everybody is. the drums are mostly holding down the quarter-notes (although of course you can swing even on just quarters), with most of the swing coming from elsewhere.

http://www.vaporrecords.com/img/jonrichman/jr_be_promo_250.jpg
You know about history and geometry
But you don't know enough to just let the baby be
And you think I should be tired now
That's because I'm not yet three

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000046XT.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

(But a percussionist's arm right next to him would seem to be doing ... not what he's doing.)

That percussionist is Keith Moon (you can briefly glimpse his face early in the clip). And yeah, he pretty much never did what anyone else was doing.

Haha, Moon would explain it. Although there IS something about Ringo's face that looks like he was all kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, s- oh wait that was the half measure KICK, snare

Yeah, Ringo might've been high. He usually handled the tricky time signatures with ease and swing ("Here Comes The Sun," especially...I mean, he does fills during the trickiest parts of that song).

And he was no doubt distracted by Moon's brush-twirling antics.

If it had been done a few years later, he would have had Jim Keltner to help him.

http://www.rutles.org/rpix/leggy.jpg

Right. Now that that's been sorted out, lets figure out the weird bumps in "She Said, She Said."

I just listened to that song for the first time, sounds like it just goes to 3/4 at the bridge that starts on (when I was a) "boy", then back to 4/4 on the 8th bar.

AWP has that one pretty well covered:

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/ssss.shtml

I love that song though.

Ha, that entry has more or less his trademark statement about this stuff
Our great illustration of the principle of keeping some musical parameters steady when maxing out on others is two-fold: rather than "fight" the changing meter (at risk of obscuring it), both the harmonic rhythm and the drumming are slavishly at the meter's service. The chords change on every measure boundary, and the drumming (and the bass as well) forgo fancy syncopation for strictly even eighth-note marking of the beat.

^^ that's what I be saying about programming drums in threes, people

apart from the bridge section though the drumming on that song is really inventive. one of my favorite beatles drum tracks.

(i'm just guessing, but it sounds like some keith moon influence)

The drumming sort of does obscure it/smooth it out. If you're playing the snare on every single beat then there's no real indication of where the downbeat is.

xpost

Yeah, marking the beats is not necessarily the same as serving the meter.

^^ that's what I be saying about programming drums in threes, people
say what?

I mean, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say.

Do typical Syd Barrett songs count as pop songs?

I guess everybody is over on the Heath Ledger OD/RIP thread.

time of the season

Just syncopated 4/4 no?

I count it
four-and-One-(two)-AND-(three)

Repeat.

Unless I got up on my bad foot and started on the wrong beat...

yeah, nothing odd in that song.

OK, I read the AWP thing and listened to S^4 last night and started to understand the bridge. Once it really settles down into 3/4 it feels pretty natural, it's just the very beginning that is disorienting, where it's technically in 4/4 for two bars and then 3/4 for two bars, but there's no real backbeat as Jordan pointed out and no other hook, bass or otherwise, to hang your hat on.

I wish I understood this stuff. I bet it could enhance listening to music, it could allow you to listen with different ears. Nice work guys.

possible side effects include ranking britney spears above arcade fire.

(oops sorry you were saying high on fire, not arcade fire. um, that too.)

"Fire"? 4/4, but doesn't start on a downbeat.

You're good, tipsy, very good (yes, high on fire). I hadn't had my coffee yet when I went on a rant on that thread this morning.

we could get into led zep shit

"Fire"? 4/4, but doesn't start on a downbeat.

starts on the 4 right? yeah not starting on the 1 is a good way to sound off kilter without being off filter.

Wait the 4/4 beginning of the bridge of S^4 does have backbeat which continues into the first two 3/4 bars, so he hits the snare like this one-TWO-three ONE-two-three. The bass does a pick-up on the "two-three" and the we settle into waltz time. The SECOND time through the bridge only the first 3/4 bar is transitional having the extra backbeat carryover, drums go: one-TWO-three, one-two-three and bass figure starts on the downbeat of the second 3/4 bar, "one-two-three".

(xpost)
I think so. I think somebody makes a mistake coming back in at the end too. Not a timing mistake per se, but playing the wrong section.

Isn't "Black Dog" in 7/8 or something, I can't remember.

There's no AWP website for easy reference.

led zep, that thread about the "fool in the rain" fills is pretty good. and there's always the crunge (9/8?).

My itchy g00gle finger tells me BD switches between 4 and 5.

the crunge is so awesome. it's in 9/8, and the bridge goes three bars of 4/4 and then one bar of 9/8.

Black Dog kind of fucks me up because Bonham basically slams through it in 4/4. Also, because of the stops and starts, it's too easy just to think of the riff and not really know the time signature. Haven't listened to it in awhile.

The Crunge is a great goddamn tune.