― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 September 2003 17:30 (twenty years ago) link
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 18 September 2003 17:36 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 September 2003 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
Nice guy at the party. Should have worn his scarf more. Died years before the electric guitar was close to popularized.
>Les Paul?
Plugged in first (or second -- does it matter?). Then forgot to turn it up.
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Thursday, 18 September 2003 18:20 (twenty years ago) link
Anyway, it had to be legitimized among musicians before it became everybody's favorite instrument.
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 September 2003 18:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Thursday, 18 September 2003 18:44 (twenty years ago) link
BLACK guitars vs. WHITE guitars.
― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 September 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 18 September 2003 19:06 (twenty years ago) link
― JasonD (JasonD), Thursday, 18 September 2003 19:36 (twenty years ago) link
Yes.
Can you press these distinctions very far without getting into some sticky shit?
Not usually.
Can boy sings blue the whites?
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Thursday, 18 September 2003 20:33 (twenty years ago) link
"okay, here's how it works -- if it puts me to sleep, it's folk; if it's played by black guys, it's funk; and if i don't understand it, it's jazz."
― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:19 (twenty years ago) link
It's mad to try to pick apart what types of music are either 'black' or 'white': facets of rap and soul (formerly in the 'black' camp) have been mixed with rock/pop/blah-blah (formerly in the 'white' camp) for ages (even if badly, ie, Limp Bizkit). The benefit nowadays is that facets of both are freely used to give exposure to the widest audience. Otherwise, you would also get into the old argument of who should listen to what.
― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:31 (twenty years ago) link
― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:09 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:11 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:13 (twenty years ago) link
Pretty damn funny.
― Dock Miles (Dock Miles), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link
― A Girl Named Sam (thatgirl), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:19 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:27 (twenty years ago) link
A friend of mine told me once that Shellac were 'the whitest band in the world'.I have no idea what that means.
On the 'worst review for you' thread it's been suggested that Radiohead's music has a lack of black influence.Huh? Radiohead is (still) largely guitar based, and black people were huge players in popularising the guitar in popular music.
yeah the mind boggles!!! "huh?"!!
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:29 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:38 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:43 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 19 September 2003 00:55 (twenty years ago) link
-- trife (...), September 19th, 2003.
Well I still have no idea what Shellac being 'white' means. I know the ppl in the band are white, but the music? That's a bunch of soundwaves.
By 'popularising the guitar' I was thinking of the early blues players, I'm fairly sure I'm right that they made it a mainstream popular music instrument in the 20th century.
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 05:50 (twenty years ago) link
The people in NE, NWA and Missy are black. But why call the music black?
Trife, by 'black music' do you just mean genres of music where over a certain percentage of the players are black? So, like, basketball is a 'black' sport?
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 05:53 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not arguing with you, I want to know something. If it's all so obvious please write me a simple one word definition of black music and the same of white music, thanks.
I don't live in America, perhaps that's the problem, I think maybe in the UK we're not so obsessed with race.
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 05:55 (twenty years ago) link
Isn't it more 'segregating music on culture grounds'? There is no black vs white dichotomy. Many other cultures have musics that are abscribed to them. Wait, ALL cultures have musics that are abscribed to them. What is the difference between labeling something as Japanesse or Indian or Gypsy? (not a rhetorical question) Is it because black culture and music is not tied to one particular landmass? When I think of black music, I think of music predominately developed within the communities of the descendants of slaves. It seems like to deny the existence of black music is to deny the existence of black culture.
― oops (Oops), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:45 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:50 (twenty years ago) link
― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:51 (twenty years ago) link
(As a translation for Brits.)
(Perhaps simplistic, but then you'll get a sense of how fraught and [needlessly?] complicated it is.)
― David A. (Davant), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:51 (twenty years ago) link
― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link
― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:54 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:56 (twenty years ago) link
that's cause the man keeps them down
― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:57 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 06:57 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Friday, 19 September 2003 07:06 (twenty years ago) link
That makes more sense, you're saying black and white people have different cultures. (vast generalisation but fair enough)
I know it sounds really stupid but that hadn't really occurred to me.I'd say that the few black ppl I know have, say, 80% the same culture as me. That's probably because of where I live.
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:06 (twenty years ago) link
I now that Shellac are white and NWA are black, but their music?
Do people just mean that most artists in the same/similar genres are a certain colour?
i mean, are the motives for that so far beyond your grasp?? honestly, you can disagree with the constraints of the system all you want, whatever, but to say that you literally cannot comprehend why someone would think that, youre either being disingenuous or totally culturally ignorant -- trife (...), September 19th, 2003.
I'm not complaining/disagreeing about any system, at most I'm complaining about some peoples use of silly language. What are their motives? What are your motives? To group music made by black people together as one?I feel I have more in common with PE (though very little) than I do with Coldplay.
literally cannot comprehend why someone would think that,Would think what? That some music is black or white? I'm unclear about which 'that' we're talking about now.
I'm not being disingenuous but I probably am ignorant of a lot of culture.
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:12 (twenty years ago) link
Are you American? Nowadays in Britain class is a LOT less important day to day than Americans seem to think it is.
― dave q, Friday, 19 September 2003 07:16 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Friday, 19 September 2003 07:18 (twenty years ago) link
― trife (simon_tr), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:20 (twenty years ago) link
― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:22 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Friday, 19 September 2003 07:24 (twenty years ago) link
I'm not claiming England is a rascism free paradise, I can't compare it to America properly because I've never been to America which probably explains why I'm failing to really understand a lot of what's being said here.
I do think, from reading ILx, from newspapers and TV, that America is a lot more up tight about black Vs white stuff.
I don't think that's because England is such a great, friendly place or anything, but because there are few enough black people that they don't seem like a threat. Also there are Asians (mostly from India or Pakistan) and Eastern European immigrants for (white) idiots to pick on.
If you weren't as ignorant of Britain as I am of America you'd know that.
since you come from the racism-free black ppl's paradise of ENGLAND -- trife (...), September 19th, 2003.
No I don't. I come from Wales. Wales was conquered/taken-over/invaded by England at some point - I don't know the exact ins and outs or if it was a military, political or by-invitation rout.
Although they're rarely referred to as such, Welsh people are effectively and mostly white ethnic minority living in Britain whose culture has at various points been deliberately weakened by the British government. At times in the last century Welsh children were punished severeley for even speaking their own language.
(I know that comes across like I'm a bitter, vitriolic welsh patriot or something but I'm not at all. I've just said all that as information.
I much prefer that I speak English to Welsh and though I'm proud to be Welsh I think it's the same sort of pride scousers have about liverpool or New Yorkers have about New York. I'm not bitter that Wales doesn't rule itself, I don't think it should.)
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:27 (twenty years ago) link
(UK racism comes from ppl who fear introducing 'race' into the mix will fuck up the class system that's kept everybody in place so smoothly) -- dave q (scrape10...), September 19th, 2003.----------------------------------------------------------------------
no dave havent you heard!! britain is a classless paradise where nwa and radiohead just collaborated on 'ok compton' -- trife (...), September 19th, 2003.
Have you ever lived here? How would you even tell what class someone is? Secret handshake? Money is a lot more important than class, isn't the US a bit like that?
(NWA split up years ago BTW, though I've heard Autechre and Dre have been laying down some beats)
― mei (mei), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:31 (twenty years ago) link
Um, their job, their parents' wealth, their alma mater, etc. It doesn't give you a discount on a hamburger or something, but doesn't it give you greater chances to 'succeed' so that you don't need a discount? Don't need to throw your class status in people's faces because it's such an underlying thing?
― oops (Oops), Friday, 19 September 2003 07:36 (twenty years ago) link
― geordie racer, Friday, 19 September 2003 07:42 (twenty years ago) link
Roland Kirk had a theory about jazz & rock music, that jazz was the rhythmic and spiritual musical instincts of African-descended Americans coming into contact with the scales, modes, motifs and whatnot of European classical music, and that rock music was those same emphasis-on-harmony-and-melody instincts of Euro/Anglo-descended Americans integrating these new-to-them rhythmic-to-the-point-of-sexual elements the African-descended folks brought to this continent with them.
I guess what I'm saying is that, although yes the terms are very appropriate in relation to the communities in which the style was discovered, it's not like white/black music styles have grown entirely independent of each other. I think there's been a great deal more cross-cultural influence in music (esp. American music) than most people give credit for.
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:34 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:35 (twenty years ago) link
Da, da, da, daaaa!
Beethoven Symphony #5.
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 14:53 (twenty years ago) link
-- Dan Perry (djperr...), September 23rd, 2003.
Where do I send your prize?
(It's a conductor's baton, for dictating the rhythm (etc) made from chocolate)
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 15:56 (twenty years ago) link
As for the classical, can anyone identify this from the ryhthm alone?
-- Dan Perry (djperr...) (webmail), September 23rd, 2003. (Dan Perry)
Correction Dan, I think you'll find that's a Trio song with an extr Daaa on it - your cd may be jumping, or a Russian may be expressing approval.
― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:34 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:36 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:43 (twenty years ago) link
People are now back to discussing 'black' music again and still no one has definitively said what it is!
― mei (mei), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:56 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:58 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:58 (twenty years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 18:10 (twenty years ago) link
― JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 18:15 (twenty years ago) link
that was in my first post to this thread. I don't think it's a perfect definition, so if you disagree with it or think something needs to be added to it, I'm all ears. (eyes?)
― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 18:20 (twenty years ago) link
peace
― LISAMARIE THOMAS, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
― kelsey taylor kukesh, Friday, 27 February 2004 01:07 (twenty years ago) link
― Sym (shmuel), Friday, 27 February 2004 01:11 (twenty years ago) link
― maypang (maypang), Friday, 27 February 2004 02:34 (twenty years ago) link
― jack cole (jackcole), Friday, 27 February 2004 03:04 (twenty years ago) link
-- nickalicious (nza2342...), September 23rd, 2003.
Which means blues, rock and roll and hip hop aren't black, cause they come froom the USA where black people are a minority?
― mei (mei), Friday, 29 April 2005 11:08 (nineteen years ago) link
-- trife (...), September 19th, 2003 4:20 AM. (simon_tr) (link)
several years on this is still the most amusing thing i have ever read on ilx
― nervous (cochere), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 10:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― mei (mei), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 13:44 (eighteen years ago) link