Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

Morrissey is an old man overromanticising the hovels of his youth and the days where "British Culture" was less fractured and there was a vague sense of "national identity".

morrissey was in his youth in the 60s and 70s, i think -- so before all the immigration.

no, sorry, i mean 'during and after' all the immigration.

Enjoy yourselves.

Thanks, don't mind if we do!

Morrissey is an old man overromanticising the hovels of his youth and the days where "British Culture" was less fractured and there was a vague sense of "national identity".

if that knightsbridge comment is anything to go by, he probably doesnt like living here anymore is cos he thinks all the non-white faces in england are ruining ye olde britishness. fair enough, i see nothing wrong with people wanting to preserve traditional britishness, but to him, anyone from somewhere else living here is an immediate threat to that which is the same bollocks argument all the right wingers use. so he can fuck right off. im quite a big morrisey/smiths fan and ive always wondered about the ambiguous tone of bengali in platforms - hes clever nott o come out and say what he means blatantly but it is basically the nice sympathetic face of your casual nationalism.

based on the video clips he plays before his live shows I'm pretty sure Morrissey believes that culture should have remained stagnant after 1965 (except for the New York Dolls)

Morrissey is an old man overromanticising the hovels of his youth and the days where "British Culture" was less fractured and there was a vague sense of "national identity".

well, yeah, and the same goes for most of the bands the nme likes (essentially), but there's a bit of a difference between objecting to what happened in pop music and objecting to, like, immigration -- which predated morrissey's birth (to immigrant parents) anyway.

crosspost

he's not objecting to immigration per se, he's objecting to the perceived specific consequences of immigration in England (or so i suspect).

morrissey was in his youth in the 60s and 70s, i think -- so before all the immigration.

no, sorry, i mean 'during and after' all the immigration.

You think immigration is responsible for the fracturing of the 'British national identity'? I think it's way down the list.

or not even objecting, just lamenting. his examples (quoted) are absurd however and if he had better ones he might get more sympathy/taken more seriously.

"he's not objecting to immigration per se, he's objecting to the perceived specific consequences of immigration in England (or so i suspect)."

i doubt that he cares about the other consequences.

if you end up leaving the country is it because you care or because you don't care?

You think immigration is responsible for the fracturing of the 'British national identity'? I think it's way down the list.

-- Mister Craig, Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:41 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I think this is a fair point because Morrissey's not attributing any of this fracturing of British national identity to "non-English accents". Oh wait.

I have no idea if he's a racist or not - but he did the smart thing in getting out of England. It's a shithole full of angry, repressed, frustrated, alcoholic, ill-educated people crammed on to part of a tiny island. Give me the US, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, or Scotland any day.

you've lived in all of these countries?

" ... With the issue of immigration, it's very difficult because although I don't have anything against people from other countries, the higher the influx into England the more the British identity disappears. If you travel to Germany, it's still absolutely Germany. If you travel to Sweden, it still has a Swedish identity. But travel to England and you have no idea where you are... If you walk through Knightsbridge you'll hear every accent apart from an English accent."

I have no idea if he's a racist or not - but he did the smart thing in getting out of England. It's a shithole full of angry, repressed, frustrated, alcoholic, ill-educated people crammed on to part of a tiny island. Give me the US, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, or Scotland any day.

-- Emily S., Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:54 (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^this is true except Americans, Australians, and Brazilians are all awful people

Possibly not as bad as the English though, apart from the Australians

And Brazilian couriers

You think immigration is responsible for the fracturing of the 'British national identity'? I think it's way down the list.

-- Mister Craig, Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:41 (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I think this is a fair point because Morrissey's not attributing any of this fracturing of British national identity to "non-English accents". Oh wait.

-- Dom Passantino, Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:48 (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

If you view the post in the context it was intended, to reject a false assumption in the comment I was responding to, i.e.

morrissey was in his youth in the 60s and 70s, i think -- so before all the immigration.

no, sorry, i mean 'during and after' all the immigration.

and refer to Morrissey's comments

"It's not true that the reason I wouldn't wish to live in England is the immigration explosion"

"The British identity (is/was) very attractive...I grew up into it, and I find it quaint and amusing. But (that) is a memory now"

To the question 'Isn't immigration enriching rather than diluting the British identity?'

"It does in a way, and it's nice in its way. But you have to say goodbye to the Britain that you once knew"

Then you might get a broader scope on his views. If you want.

And don't you think the *perceived* proliferation of non-English speakers *affects* the British national identity in some way?

Basically I think Morrissey is saying he misses a romanticised post-war Britain that was essentially fictional anyway, and that the modern world is increasingly unrecognisable to him.

Is he a racist for thinking that it's possible to have an overgenerous immigration policy?

Shit, that needed indents.

having thought about this for an hour or two, I think I need to rephrase what I said...

Morrissey's love of nation is much closer to a sort of High Romanticism than it is any sort of patriotism. I think thats why things like "Bengali In Platforms" have never really bothered me: many writers (of any sort, song or otherwise) are in love with things that never really existed. Thats why it seems so insane to me that anyone could mistake the comments of a (great) pop singer/lyricist for the comments of a member of the National Front.

"He's wearing rose-colored glasses instead of swastikas, therefore it's uncriticizable."

lol swinburning its pretty easy to mistake the comments of someone who "is in love with a thing that never really existed" based on a romantic concept of people- or nationhood with a member of the national front because, uh, the national front is all about the romanticization of a people or nation that never really existed in the way they think of it.

see: fascism.

Hey, this all worked for Eric Clapton, didn't it?

Also, I think Dom is jealous that Morrissey has zinged the NME about ten million times and he never will.

I have no idea if he's a racist or not - but he did the smart thing in getting out of England. It's a shithole full of angry, repressed, frustrated, alcoholic, ill-educated people crammed on to part of a tiny island. Give me the US, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, or Scotland any day.

-- Emily S., Thursday, 29 November 2007 00:54 (8 hours ago) Link

now this i can get behind, except the last sentence.

he's not objecting to immigration per se, he's objecting to the perceived specific consequences of immigration in England (or so i suspect).

-- blueski, Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:41 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Link

eh?

Next year on ILM: Morrissey releases album of Prussian Blue covers. "Clearly ironic/whimsical/nah nah not listening" claim ILMers.

Prussian Blue are just nostalgic for an era when Jews _were_ in gas chambers, they're not saying that they'd like to go back to that time. God, listen to the lyrics in context.

Prussian Blue are just trolling black people duh.

England is a memory now. Other countries have held on to their basic identity, yet it seems to me that England was thrown away

http://images.scotsman.com/2002/05/05/0505bnpb.jpg

London Bee Enn Pea head in "gay porn film" hilarity

Sheila take a, sheila take a bow
Throw your homework onto the fire
Come out and find the one that you love
Come out and find the one you love

http://ict.org.il/var/119/52807-Nazi_Book_Burning.jpg

Man, the only reason to get involved with the BNP is for the whole D/S scene.

said Morrissey exclusively in the NME this week.

http://www.sheilaomalley.com/archives/mitfords.jpg

Some girls are bigger than others

I'd let the Mitford sisters kristal my nacht any time they want, hey guyz?

Dood, it's that whole Posh Women Be Dirty thang again.

We should have a poll on which other celebrities could come out with "I hate immigration" and have ILMers falling over themselves to defend him.

My vote = Kylie.

Burial

paris hilton

oh, wait.

cheryl cole

oh, wait

That dude from Savage Garden

Maybe more of a Poptimists thing, that.

I feel a Pole coming on.

Roald Dahl S/D

Thing is, I was listening to George Formby the other day, and nobody's gonna trump him for racists-who-made-the-best-music

From what I understand, for all the comedy Chinese stereotypes he made money off of, George's politics were pretty forward thinking.