Moby Grape: Classic or Dud?

I just want to say that now i am a full-fledged later Grape apologist--dudes, Truly Fine Citizen is a decent album--"Changes, Circles Spinning!!" is such an awesome opener!

Also, during Tower's last days I found LEGENDARY GRAPE, a later reunion record. Not bad, although the 1980's production (drums and bass mixed higher than everything else) almost ruins it, to the point where certain songs sound like a middle-aged classic-rock suburban bar band.

I still think the song "Truly Fine Citizen" is one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard, at 2 minutes...

Skip-Oar- still is one of my all time faves, but is also very un-nerving in the Syd Barrett sorta way. like listening to someone slowly come apart...

spence plays drums on The Jefferson Airplane Takes Off, and the band covered his tune his "My Best Friend" on Surrealistic Pillow, which is a great tune.

as for a grape bootleg, i've always wanted a live one but i'm not sure about ever getting to hear one.

it's sorta corny but i always loved this song, also mosley rocking a sweater vest!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGEbg_SpRsA&feature=related

I like the second album more than the first!

they ruled so hard ... I can't believe there hasn't been some sort of Columbia/Legacy archive release of them ... like we've seen from Santana/Big Bro/Byrds/ etc ... there simply has to be a hi-fi version of "Dark Magic" lurking in the vaults somewhere

how is the 1971 reunion album, 20 granite creek???

who fuckin cares about '71 .. we need that late 60s freakout shit that these guys were doing, DARK MAGIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey, has everyone heard about the QMS stuff that's gonna come out ???

oh shit, wait, this might just be that San Jose show that you and me and everyone else with a clue had already (-: ... i thought it might be new stuff...

http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/web/Release/BEARVP105CD/

crap .. bad link ... should've been this:

http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/web/Release/BEARVP105CD/

The CD release of "Moby Grape", "Wow" and "Grape Jam" by Sundazed (at the end of 2007?) were withdrawn at the insistance of Matthew Katz.

There are a few of the latter two knocking about GB stores, the first is long gone.

Nobody needs "Grape Jam" save for "The Lake" which is quite funny, especially for the "whatever happened to Hairy Mary?" ending. On which, hangs a tale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHc1pJ9RMLk

dark magic is awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r6eGG6Y-zs

the reissue of the first album, on Sundazed, I think, is now OP and goes for $$. Matthew Katz again??

From what I understand it is Katz...again. He gave Sundazed permission basically to bait Sony/Legacy into doing their own reissues. That's the story I was told. I don't know if it's accurate though.

20 Granite Creek is pretty good.

I love Grape '69 and Truly Fine Citizen.

i've got a pretty decent-sounding 17-minute version of "Dark Magic" -- it's on this bootleg comp (with a bunch of different bands) called "San Franciscan Nights" or some such ... it is pretty rockin -- more like "sister ray" than "dark star" i think. "sister ray" as played by the buffalo springfield ...

ysi?

ah, that's what I was afraid of. Well, I'm sure Katz is a crook, but Columbia's not releasing the MG records in a form similar to that taken on the Byrds reissues--certainly, Skip Spence studio chatter has got to be more entertaining than the Michael Clarke stuff on Notorious--is something I hope they'll rectify. Even though I have the 2-CD set they did a while back.

and yeah, 20 Granite Creek is pretty solid, really. "Goin' Down to Texas" is brilliant at 2 minutes.

So how much might an original pressing of their first album with mint-condition poster be worth? Because I just scored one for 20 bucks and saw that the poster alone sells for upwards of $30.

Mono or stereo?

The condition of the jacket as well as the disc will matter too, but if it's stereo, on ebay, maybe $40-70. If mono, more like $50-100 i think.

of course, sometimes a nice stereo copy with poster will sell for $150, like so: http://popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=130154241998

You should just keep it, it's a great record!

I believe it's stereo, it's in good condition though. I was planning on keeping it anyway, it's one of my favorite 60s records, I was just wondering for the collectable value.

The second disk of Vintage is kinda depressing. "Funky-Tunk" is a terrible name for a song. The song is not as bad as the title, though the Kermit-the-Frog vocals highlight something that bugs me about country rock: the suspicion that these guys are kinda making fun of country music. I hated the Beachwood Sparks for that reason. But the Jefferson Airplane on "The Farm", that's another example: too much yee-haw-ing, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GO_glmbqjI

What is it?

Have you guys heard about the live thing that Sundazed is doing?
http://www.sundazed.com/shop/moby_grape_live.php
Looks pretty rad

ooh, just found out about the live thing ... anyone heard it? samples on itunes sound great.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5138/5500082647_9894689743_z.jpg

It's the airbrushed version!

true :(

Fun Fact: Jerry Miller played most of the guitar on the last Chocolate Watchband lp.

First album doesn't quite live up to its rep IMO, though unquestionably still a great straightforward rock LP with nice multipart vocals, triple-threat guitars, and consistantly good (but not great) songwriting. Also mixes hints of folk, blues, jazz, and country adroitly. For a band often labelled "psychedelic", notable that the only drug they sang the praises of was Robitussin!

Wow was the first Grape album I heard, and like many rock acts in that period, decided in the wake of Sgt. Pepper that any leading-edge rock band needed to embellish their music with strings, brass, and studio trickery. Some excellent songs here ("He", "Can't Be So Bad"), several forgettable ones ("Miller's Blues"), some half-baked good ideas, and more gimmicks (a lock groove near the end of side 1; you had to advance the stylus and play the last track at 78rpm). The free bonus disk, Grape Jam, is a collection of boring jam sessions, notable only for the first 45 seconds of the record: "Never" was copped by Led Zeppelin which built "Since I've Been Loving You" around the first verse of this song (after which it diverges completely).

Moby Grape '69 was more consistent than it's predecessor, more countrified, and no longer overproduced. Skip was out of the band by this point.

Don't recall anything all that likeable from the next two albums or the Bob Mosley solo LP. I've heard only a few song's from Oar, and wasn't excited enough to hear the rest. I also have their (again) self-titled 1983 album, which is likeable but utterly unexceptional adult-contemporary fare that could have been the work of, say, Firefall if it were catchier.

From what i understand, the best-sounding reissue of the first album was on Columbia's "Vintage" 2-disc set, which includs the 1st album in its entirety and highlights from the other three Columbia discs, with some outtakes and alternate versions thrown in. The Katz-issued CDs on the San Francisco Sound label sound like crap.

The "Grape Jam" record's only notable track is the one they recorded as a 'prize' in a songwriters competition.

Particularly the end "Whatever happened to hairy mary", which was a madly smutty entry they weren't allowed to choose as the winner.

The live sundazed 2lp is pretty spotty, tbh, but the sidelong "Dark Magic" recorded on new year's ever 1966 is unbelievably great.
Arguably worth the price of the set, but it's a pretty expensive set. They went all out on the packaging.

It's on the CD anyway, innit?

I dunno.

What CD?

oink

I have Bob Mosley's solo record from '72 on vinyl (often used to be in delete bins). Don't remember a thing about it.

Matthew Katz, notoriously one of the most reprehensible and grossly dishonest managers in rock history, finally died at the age of 93 back on September 30th after spending much of his adult life destroying this band, taking every cent they earned and nearly litigating their back catalogue out of existence save for the shitty reissues he’d try to put out and the temporary workarounds Bob Irwin and Sony have come up with over the years (see “Vintage: The Very Best of Moby Grape.”

Ugh.

Seem to recall somebody…the Airplane, maybe?… advised them to stay away from him early on.

All the sordid details can be found here:

https://www.loudersound.com/features/the-story-of-moby-grape-chaos-and-courtrooms-acid-and-white-witches

Thanks. Once it’s in my head might just as well go back and (re)read all the gory details.

Can’t remember if I mentioned Susan Schmidt Hornung’s recent piece about “Omaha” upthread.

Not surprised this wasn't reported, who was going to mourn this horrible prick?

I don’t…but it could make their catalog, particularly their debut, available in complete and proper form again. (You can’t even stream the debut in its entirety on Apple Music.)

Would love it if Sundazed brought back their reissues - they were immediately pulled due to Katz’s litigation though pre-orders and other copies got out. That was the last attempt to properly release them in physical form.

I could have sworn we had discussed him already dying recently but it guess was just lots of posts on the surprised at still alive thread.

Yes, I think he was mentioned fairly recently, possibly musing on why horrors like him and Kissinger are still alive... oh hold on...

xpost yeah, I got the debut CD just ahead of HMV having to pull them out of stores.

I have a 90s vinyl reissue of the debut bought in FOPP in the west end of Glasgow before they expanded UK wide. Man, that was a great shop.

Vintage was great, but suffers a bit (particularly in regards to the debut) from including all the studio chat and false starts on the individual songs themselves instead of indexing them separately or putting them in the between track countdowns.

Yes, not sure I agree with some of the choices on which songs to include (or exclude) either.

including all the studio chat and false starts

True, although I wonder if this was part of a subterfuge to create new masters that weren't under Katz's ownership.

which songs to include (or exclude)

I haven't heard any other songs from the records proper, I'd like to know your choices. I could live without some of the Bob Mosley stuff that made it on Vintage

Finally listened to 20 Granite Creek, and first impression yow what a Saturday night! 1971, all five singing, playing, writing, rowdy and sharp and even more variety than primo The Band, without getting too fancy about it. Something barroom and outdoors about it, Cali all thee way--title and cover art provide that '71 roots touch, music not too much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA4FtjnmoV4

i think i like learning about, and talking about, this band more than i actually like listening to them.

even though i do really enjoy listening to them sometimes.

I go through a couple days a year listening to those San Francisco bands. I will put together a play list loading up an album or two from a few bands then sort them around and give them a listen.

If you go from short songs to long songs, the Moby Grape stuff gets played and done pretty quick.

I got the first one on LP. The record has been played to death, but it is cool to look at the cover.

Mind you the LP was toasted long before I ever got it. Got a feeling a few joints were rolled off it in its heyday.

And I have had the LP over 30 years now…