― Mitya (mitya), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― fizzcaraldo (Justin M), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:47 (eighteen years ago) link
I'll agree with you -- though I loved them from pretty much the first single, it wasn't until Coming Up that everything just came together perfectly. It is still hands down my favorite album by them.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:48 (eighteen years ago) link
Yep, "Stay Together" was released Feb 1994, "DMS" in Sept 1994.
― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:52 (eighteen years ago) link
Btw. The more I listen to the last two albums, the more I realise breaking up was probably a good thing to do.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 22 December 2005 04:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 22 December 2005 09:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:47 (eighteen years ago) link
i have no idea what suede mean to ned, though -- for me they're so bound up with *what england was like* in the early '90s, i don't see how they might travel. in that sense though, 'coming up' *was* right for mid-1996. but all of the self-consciously 'weird' people in my school liked it, which was kind of cramping, and i think el brettster played up to this too much ('trash', 'beautiful ones', etc).
― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 22 December 2005 10:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― BeeOK (boo radley), Thursday, 22 December 2005 11:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 22 December 2005 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Scrap that. Flashboy for the club, please.
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 13:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:21 (eighteen years ago) link
But Pulp's His n Hers was another Ed Buller production! it sounds very similar to suede and dms, I think. And I love all three. He's especially good at wobbly drifty underwater piano sounds, which remind me of the clunky old upright we used to have at our school.
― JimD (JimD), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:28 (eighteen years ago) link
i have no idea what suede mean to ned, though
A band I really loved from 1992 on and started a mailing list for in 1995 and etc. Among other things.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link
Anglophilia is everywhere (and only feels stronger in year 6 of the Bush Regime).
Sci-Fi is great, too. I think pointing to Suede's "cast-offs" as proof that they were the world-beaters during that period is OTM. Should I go look for a Tears thread, or will people chime in here?
― Mitya (mitya), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link
This is true. However there's a conceptual integrity to the thing – a gestalt, let's call it – which holds it together despite that middle stretch.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link
Realizing I am about to revolt all of you but utterly not caring about it, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness has more conceptual integrity than Dog Man Star and that fucker is twice as long.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link
― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link
Despite all my rage you're still just a rat in a cage.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link
Ned, i hadn't noticed you liked suede that much, we could have talked about that in bruxelles ! (for instance how heretic it is to prefer "coming up" to the two first ones...).
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Thursday, 22 December 2005 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― naranjito (Koens), Thursday, 22 December 2005 18:19 (eighteen years ago) link
Allowing for my lack of guitar-playing prowess, how can one tell? I remember reading interviews when Dog Man Star was released in which it was revealed that Brett played the guitars, but the electric lead sounds an awful lot like Bernard.
Are there other songs in the Suede catalogue on which Brett plays?
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 22 December 2005 19:48 (eighteen years ago) link
as for other songs played by brett, i suppose there must be in the post-butler albums as there are songs he wrote alone...
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link
That's Suede. Dreadful band, acceptable and half-convincing at the time (like KasabianLibertineArcticKaiserKillers currently seem 'good' to some young and not-so-young folk) truly embarrasing now, they remind me of Placebo but withe the good stuff spread even thinner.
― Merry Christmas (fandango), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Merry Christmas (fandango), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:19 (eighteen years ago) link
well, i guess, that's roughly what bernard thought at the time !as for the rest of your post, i don't agree, of course, but it's all about taste, eh...
― AleXTC (AleXTC), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Merry Christmas (fandango), Friday, 23 December 2005 12:27 (eighteen years ago) link
(has 30 second compact flashback of 1992-94. stares at comment. mouth moves. no words become available..)
― piscesboy, Friday, 23 December 2005 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link
I must have been unusually overwhelmed by indie-student-glam that day to have had bile to spare on this. Heck, they're mostly mediocre (Britpop was a hero to most...) roughly equivalent to the class of '06 I guess. Depressing how little things change :/
They were certainly nowhere near as irritating as Placebo in the making a career out of three ideas stakes.
― fandango (fandango), Sunday, 14 May 2006 11:34 (eighteen years ago) link
FWIW Brett mentioned the other day that while the Tears continue on his solo album is finally coming out soon. I admit I don't know what to think of that.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 May 2006 11:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 14 May 2006 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― fandango (fandango), Sunday, 14 May 2006 13:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― fandango (fandango), Sunday, 14 May 2006 13:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 14 May 2006 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 14 May 2006 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― pleased to mitya (mitya), Sunday, 14 May 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 14 May 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Monday, 15 May 2006 00:12 (eighteen years ago) link
Fair enough, I just listened to Apollo 13 and you're right about the vocals. I don't know if I'd call it an organic sound, but you have a point. There's a kind of claustrophobic layering I don't like on a lot of Bernard Butler stuff, but even on something like Yes with McAlmont the vocals are actually quite clear on top of the muddy mess.
I also listened to the recent Suede album again today, and some of the songs are great, but the reverb is pushed way past Dog Man Star levels even. It's terrible on headphones.
― Eyeball Kicks, Tuesday, 28 October 2014 23:34 (nine years ago) link
I never got into the latest album and don't understand the raving reviews. "it starts and end with you" is ok but nothing else really grabbed me.actually, apart from the Butler era, there's nothing I feel like listening to from them (even though I liked "Coming Up" and even some stuff from "Head music" at the time...).They still made some good songs after BB but I think the music lost a lot of depth. it became more superficial, like unidimensional (not just the poppy singles, even nice songs like "to the sea").
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 30 October 2014 10:29 (nine years ago) link
I rate Bloodsports up there with the first three Suede albums, but my god is the mastering horrible.
― Welcome To (Turrican), Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:25 (nine years ago) link
I've grown to appreciate the production as this particularly British shitty sound aesthetic, sort of like American lo-fi, but higher-fi, yet still so weird and thin and shitty. Like they just don't know how to record the bottom end or distorted guitars right, or are trying to use hi-fi equipment to recall the less hi-fi "Ziggy Stardust" sound.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 October 2014 21:29 (nine years ago) link
yeah i'm baffled by the raves too it's a terrible record IMO, no better than Head Music. post-Butler they had maybe 2 great songs (Picnic.. and Chemistry.. off Coming Up) and beyond that they could be any half-decent Uk guitar band.
― piscesx, Friday, 31 October 2014 05:24 (nine years ago) link
somehow, I think the first taste of the post BB line up is "the power". even at the time of the release, when I didn't know that butler didn't play on it, I found it a bit dull and liveless although it's nice and poppy (it's the only song that I never feel like listening to on DMS). so the problem of post butler suede is not just about the songwriting, since it was a butler/anderson song. there's a raw and passionate aspect in the performance that got lost with butler's departure.when you listen to the guitar parts on "the power", it's almost a joke. some (very un-butler) acoustic strumming and very basic electric licks. there's almost nothing. they filled up the song with strings but it still sounds very empty.
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 31 October 2014 14:52 (nine years ago) link
the end of "the power" is scary, what is that huge whining sound that envelopes everything?
― brimstead, Friday, 31 October 2014 19:08 (nine years ago) link
While I'll agree that 'The Power' sounds out of place on Dog Man Star, not only because Butler isn't playing on it, but also since there's a noticeable difference in production from the rest of the album which makes it come out sounding lighter, I completely disagree that Suede stopped being good when Butler left. What fucked Suede up was Brett's drug intake, not Butler leaving.
― Welcome To (Turrican), Friday, 31 October 2014 20:29 (nine years ago) link
who played the parts on "The Power" -- was it Anderson uncredited or Oakes?
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 31 October 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
It definitely wasn't Oakes. I think he only became a member of Suede about month or so before Dog Man Star was released, and it would have been finished and "in the can" by then. I think the first recording Oakes played on was 'This World Needs A Father', B-side to The Wild Ones, which has both Oakes and Butler on guitar... and then of course, his first songwriting contribution was 'Together', B-side to New Generation.
― Welcome To (Turrican), Friday, 31 October 2014 20:55 (nine years ago) link
From this piece:
"There was one song he didn't play on at all, The Power," Paphides explains. "They got this session guitarist in who was one of the very best you could get. He played what was on Bernard's demo, note for note. But it didn't sound right."
― willem, Friday, 31 October 2014 21:07 (nine years ago) link
The demo of The Power was called Banana Youth. The session guy obviously followed some of the guitar parts note for note, but BY doesn't sound anything like a finished song. Brett's just trying stuff out, high in the mix and full of reverb, on top of a very very rough guitar track. If Bernard had still been about, this would have ended up very different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBXqIbGLe0Q
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 31 October 2014 22:30 (nine years ago) link
I like The Power btw. At the time, it seemed like one of the weaker tracks, but now it's cool. I remember them talking it up in an interview at the time (in Select I think), saying how its lighter sound reflected their relief from the tension of BB being around.
― Eyeball Kicks, Friday, 31 October 2014 22:34 (nine years ago) link
The Power = Shed 7 on an off day.
― piscesx, Saturday, 1 November 2014 01:26 (nine years ago) link
― Welcome To (Turrican)
Completely agree with this.
The Power is a really good song but compared to some of the B-sides they had around then it seems like a strange choice to have on the album. I'm not sure what would have been the best replacement. Killing of a Flashboy is my favourite but not sure that would work in its place.
― Kitchen Person, Saturday, 1 November 2014 01:52 (nine years ago) link
Whipsnade would've worked instead of The Power. Similar lyrical themes and kind of light touch compared to surrounding songs. But I like The Power. Would rather have got rid of Black or Blue.
― Eyeball Kicks, Sunday, 2 November 2014 01:40 (nine years ago) link
This is really crazy talk though. Just about the only Suede song I can think of that is Shed 7 level is One Love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbxopjx02DE
― Eyeball Kicks, Sunday, 2 November 2014 01:47 (nine years ago) link
I finally got to listen to the BBC program "follow up albums" for DMS.It's very interesting and quite heartbreaking the part with BB and BA admitting they were stupid and are still wounded and full of regrets to this day.http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j6srs
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 6 November 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
Also BA saying he should have changed the name of the band when BB left... so that they could have reunited later.
― AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 6 November 2014 17:11 (nine years ago) link
Meh, I think Suede did very well without Bernard. People are attracted to the Butler-era though, because that line-up didn't stick around long enough to make some out and out crap, which they probably would have done at some point had they continued. Post-Butler Suede made Coming Up and Bloodsports, so both line-ups have made two very good records, IMO. Not to mention B-sides such as 'Together', 'Europe Is Our Playground' amongst others.
― Welcome To (Turrican), Thursday, 6 November 2014 18:02 (nine years ago) link
Suede did lots of great stuff after Butler left, it's true, but it was within a quite specific 90s/00s alt-rock/indie template. They turned into a superior version of Placebo/Mansun, I reckon, which was fine but frustrating, because Dog Man Star suggested they were heading towards something more. Dog Man Star isn't indie at all - it's kind of pure classic/experimental rock, Bowie/Neil Young/Pink Floyd, not that original really - but even if they'd never have transcended the obvious influences I would've liked to have heard their equivalents of Station to Station or Low. On the other hand, there's nothing that Bernard's done since - in his solo stuff, with McAlmont, The Tears, or producing Libertines/Duffy etc - that comes anywhere close to the wildness of Dog Man Star. Maybe that record finished this part of him off? But there's this rock'n'roll fantasy of band members who hate each other making madder and madder music, and that's the thing that inspires regret.
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 6 November 2014 23:47 (nine years ago) link
well, I don't think it's possible to imagine what they would have done after DMS had they stayed together. and "coming up" and the mcalmont & butler stuff are certainly no indications since they would have evolved differently if they had kept working together, I suppose.the BBC documentary is interesting when BB says 1/ he's never been as creative as during DMS ever since 2/ he's been traumatized for years and until now by having been left behind and not being able to finish his "baby".I guess something was broken in him (and BA) at that key moment.
― AlXTC from Paris, Friday, 7 November 2014 11:23 (nine years ago) link