Justice - † Pretentious symbol = french dance?

a. i haven't heard the whole record yet

b. i agree with this below and most of what ronan's been saying

I think it's worth considering that Mylo and Headman had their biggest hits in 2004. That's three years ago so to expect some sort of consistency between people who liked them, then, when you could expect to hear Mylo in the middle of Tiefschwarz, the Knife, the Rapture etc (and this was a genuinely new and interesting DJing style), to like Justice now seems a little off to me.

Not least because, Justice sound nothing like Mylo or Headman. Plus it's obvious why people don't like Justice, if you look at what the people disliking them are listening to now.

That plus, if you lived in Europe Vahid you'd understand! (or Melbourne seemingly!)

-- Ronan, Tuesday, 29 May 2007 09:39

throwing tiefschwarz/ mylo/ knife (and i have to add annie, robyn, soulwax etc) into dj sets back then made sense, not that these acts are "eclectic", but i think north america was coming out of something that was more indie rock centric but still danceable (i'm in canada btw) - think the whole post punk/ punk funk/ angular/ 4 on the floor disco drumming and add electroclash to that ... and this music sounded fun and cheeky and fresh and just seemed to be in the same vein attitude wise ...

this below - YES!

i look back at that time as one when not so many people had a lot to say about dance and there weren't too many new fans. it was like dance became sort of eclectic pop for a while. and it was actually quite fun. but now that aesthetic just seems forced, since there is plenty of good techno and house around, and also old. the new acts aren't any better, in my opinion than the original wave, and are generally more rock orientated.

and this ....

i think it's much more in line with the whole post-2000 united states trend towards playing "whatever"; go out on a friday night to a non-aligned dance club in america and you will DJs spinning justice-style stuff alongside cut-and-run hip-hop and pop remixes, baltimore club, old daft punk, big beat, switch and jesse rose style shit,

-- strongohulkington, Tuesday, 29 May 2007 13:33 (Yesterday)

there was some similar discussion on a local message board about this scene and i think i made some comment about going out and it just looking and sounding like a big indistinct blob ... playing "whatever" NOW is not REALLY playing "whatever" - as you pointed out it's a trend with very clear boundaries, with very specific fashion and styles of music connected to it. a lot of sounds created in the past 2 or 3 years with this "whatever" in mind are coming out sounding very samey and boring and as someone said "one dimensional and drab".

observing the crowd for this music, most of them are early 20's so i don't expect them to know anything about 1999 - 2004 other than what they watched on music television. the crowd for minimal and than neo deep stuff is older. and aging ravers are scattered about anywhere.

i think i'm an aging raver :-/

i think anyone over 27 on this thread is an aging raver

I'd like to be a 'minimal grandad' and hate this (19 yo here), but it's kind of innofensively OK - and more tolerable as a student dance craze than Mr Scruff. Also, I know a few people who are getting into some actual electrohouse via this.

Electrohouse has had it's day anyway.

young ppl today - they're so intolerant ;-D

"actual electrohouse"

this is as bad as the strokes thread that got published in the da capo book where i suggested that if people got into the VU and television through the strokes then it was okay that they existed

I say electohouse because that is the housey extremity of what they are interested in, not cos I think it's going to take over the world.

gasp!

strongo = first against the wall when the rockist revolution happens

the shame will never die

hmm. not typing too good right now!

the crowd for minimal and than neo deep stuff is older. and aging ravers are scattered about anywhere.

i mean "the crowd for minimal and that neo deep stuff is older. and aging ravers are scattered about everywhere"

bleh!

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/pics/Culthor_the_Gatekeeper.JPG

i still think justice is not at all what i'm looking for in dance but i have to say agree that the arguments against the group in this thread, while trying v. hard to be self-aware, have the strong ring of oldster about them.

i guess how i felt about 'we are your friends' and 'dance' is sort of what rtc was talking about in the quik thread about populist anthems like mims and that fixxxers song where its more about 'social energy' or something, because when i'm listening to these songs absent the participatory indie club vibe they just don't come together, aimless trashiness that sounds more like an exercise in style without any function, or something. Event songs, "sweet home alabama" or "piano man"-singalongs. Thats all I can really imagine the appeal is about at least on the two aforementioned tracks, at least where my head is. I listened to a 'waters of nazereth' sample on that juno site and it sounds pretty great though.

vahid you're hardly some ambassador for perestroika and glasnost yourself!

x-post, I really resent the way people on this thread have assumed my very personal dislike of this stuff is something more than personal when at every juncture I have tried to personalise my argument.

basically, and don't feel sympathy for me, I am sick and miserable and the LAST THING I want to hear is super-compressed hyper pop music. since my entire argument is coloured by that fact I may as well nail it to the mast as I am not too keen on being co-opted into some "indie/not indie" debate I didn't even start.

eh? i don't even know if youre talking about me there but i'm certainly not trying to make any this vs that argument. specially not the rock vs dance one

no I agreed with your post really

You know I was going to say this isn't even my favorite group in this "genre", but listening again to the album and I'm *really* enjoying it!

"New Jack" is great broke down Todd Edwards funk.

I like how Spencer always seems to manage to deflect hundreds of posts of snark and/or debate by going "I love this! It's great!"

Love the 36 reference on "The Party"! However, I like Uffie's own new track much more.

I meant Three 6 of course.

and Matt, I know, I've never really played the ILM game correctly I think. I do wonder why, with the avalanche of 'text/content' these days why people take the time to (heavily) criticize things they don't like. I do also believe in silent majorities which is why I appreciate the poll threads.

I get that some people feel "political" or "activist" about taste which is fine. I used to feel that way more (and still do about certain traditional rockism debates), but in some ways I feel like the war is over and now we are living in a heaven of *so much* great music! (and not just Daft Punk wannabes).

i wish i could find that lecoq post about spencer

I have the same problem with this as I do with rock music which has distorted rhythm guitar running all the way through it - I don't know how to react to the noise and mess of it. Most of the tracks sound like compromises between noise and Daft Punk, like on 'New Jack', the way it's almost slipping away into static and losing the groove, it's pretty frustrating to me on any level (I would love noise-garage, but this sounds like Todd Edwards sabotaged by noise). On 'Stress' and 'Waters of Nazareth' the two impulses don't seem so opposed, it's more directed at your body and a lot more taught sounding.

Do you like My Bloody Valentine?

Deej, I know the quote and for the record there are obviously things I don't like. I listened to the Battles album and made like two quick posts to thread about not really feeling it, but that doesn't telescope into this-is-everything-that's-wrong-with-music-and-the-world. That said, I have felt that way about certain things, but maybe not with the same ferocity as some. Also, even though I wasn't so into disco-punk stuff, I usually wouldn't criticize people for liking it (although I have done that too) - it's probably just something I don't understand. Also, while there are conclusions that could be drawn about some people who *really* like Dave Matthews or RATM or whatever, this is really all just dance music and people who are into it are usually fine by me.

oh i was just joking, but you gotta realize the dudes taking yr side in this debate are known for being particularly critical and would prob reject yr utopian-crit-what-you-love stance for the most part!

Is anyone taking my side???

i mean 'irl' i basically agree with you unless i'm talking with people i know really well, but ilx offers you a lot more leeway to talk shit which is good i think.

xp well jess and vahid and ethan seem positively disposed to this stuff at the moment

Spencer, I do like MBV cos they have this textural depth. The general skronk of Justice doesn't work for me either as texture or groove.

the only justice song i know is d.a.n.c.e. but yeah i like the nu daft punk thing, zdarlight & all that

is it ok to like ernest saint laurent?

wait i also dig the justice vs simian joint, esp when it turns into booty bass

xpost: DEFINITELY.

Was just listening to his remix of Royksopp's "Remind Me".

Also, I do like critical takes on music (otherwise I would just troll the diplo board for zshares), but there's a difference between being critical and just criticizing... or something.

cant stand the vocals on justice vs. simian

i do really like waters of nazareth tho :-( its a banger

still for the most part ... even that song tim finney really liked on the ed banger comp sounds weak to me.

tripping over itself to sound edgy/abrasive

Is that why you put a frown in your positive statement?

i have an honest loyalty to finney's "rocker" description, which is what the stuff i don't like seems to violate (and which WoN manages to avoid)

xp frown was for backpedaling

judging from d.a.n.c.e. i dunno wtf the 'abrasive' criticism comes from

There are more abrasive sounds on the rest of the album. Overdriven bass etc.

ethan you really need to hear some of justice's other stuff in that case

does anybody have an album that all sounds like d.a.n.c.e.

kidzbop.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khMJVz5BmVw

pretty sure thats not actually boney m ... isn't that the original?

oh never mind

I've always thought "D.A.N.C.E." is kind of like Daft Punk vs. The Go! Team.

"d.a.n.c.e." reminds me of stuff like joubert singer's "stand on the word" and kitty grant's "glad to know you"

it's extremely ... disco!

i'm gonna go into the archives and find that thread where all these people stand up for "little black spiders"

another track i dig is that avalanches blend of wham over digitalism