that chart reflects writers who aren't covering rap as it exists & instead are trying to make it fit their worldview of what qualities are interesting in hip-hop. they gloss over huge qualitative differences when its suits them, and other times zoom way in to catalog the micro-differences between certain artists w/in a small, marginal scene in hip-hop
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
Mac Miller is on there
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
sorry mac miller was listed in 'industry,' which makes no sense, because he is an independent artist. spaceghostpurrp listed in 'industry' makes no sense. why is lupe fiasco not listed w/ bob in 'rappers who've successfully sold their soul.'
Where is WEBBIE on this chart?
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
dude angel haze has been brought up like twice on ilx by lex to mixed reception (is na'tee on that chart?); i just searched sly polaroid and that post from 1 minute ago is the first ever mention on ilx--posted after this chart was printed. what the fuck point are you trying to make; that the editors of spin should be prescient? i get it that it's about youtube hits & street presence or whatever, but bringing sly polaroid into this is bordering on self-caricature
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:18 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
it would be impossible to make a chart like this without doing any of these things
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
― flopson, Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what do the editors of spin have to do with what's been posted on ilx?
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
keeping in mind this is pre-whiney lol
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:26 (twelve years ago) link
― flopson, Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:24 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yes, every history book is gonna have an agenda too. that doesn't make it above critique if someone writes a history of the u.s. that doesn't write about say japanese internment or w/e
not to compare the two qualitatively but you should get my point
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
Webbie, fwiw, has been mentioned many times on ILX AND has an album out right now & has one of the biggest songs of the year on 'regional thug radio'
can we talk about how 2 chainz is in the same category as shabazz palaces, wtf
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
the point is why in the world do you expect a corny rag with a clear demographic like spin magazine to be the one to break sly polaroid.i don't think this is above critique but i think the weakness of your critique speaks to its relative success
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
dog this is totally flying over your head, huh
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:39 (twelve years ago) link
you have yet to point out the 'weakness of my critique.' its not about fucking breaking sly polaroid
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
it boggles the mind how you can read anything i've ever said on ilx about rap & not understand why the chart is absurdly distorting picture of what rap is like right now. there are probably a hundred rappers w/ larger fanbases than cities aviv that aren't included in this list. sly p was an arbitrary example.
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
as an attempt to get a handle on a picture of the scene, imo, it entirely fails. it marginalizes major artists & talents & gives undue shine towards marginal ones. the fact that you can only take apart my critique by picking out my one random example of an artist ignored shows the weakness of your critique not mine
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:44 (twelve years ago) link
^^^
I'm with deej on this one
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
i think given spin's readership & the credentials of the people who compiled the chart they give a more than generous & still representative overview of street rap trends & career dynamics. regional thug is maybe a condescending way of sorting things but i think otw everything's treated w equanimity/same level of condescension. also not everyone [who has subscribed to spin the past 3 years] loved street rap i think it would be hard to deny that right now there are a lot more interesting things going on outside of street rap than there have been in the past few years--not 2 say there's necessarily less interesting street rap--i think representing that rather than going deeper into the minutiae of regional rap radio makes total sense and definitely isn't a problem
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:01 (twelve years ago) link
well, i guess if you're concerned with creating a prism to reflect rap through a readership then it succeeds? i would prefer a more journalistic perspective personally
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:03 (twelve years ago) link
like, as an individual covering a scene, at some point you step back and realize that however much you're a part of a scene you're covering a phenomenon much larger than yourself and your tastes
otoh i would never put myself in a position of trying to capture the entirety of rap in chart form so more kudos for their ambition i suppose
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:04 (twelve years ago) link
another thing is that i feel like there was a time where it was understood that at some level a spin reader was outside of what was going on in hip-hop & wanted to see coverage of the scene as it existed; now a spin reader sees themselves as part of the narrative, as impacting the narrative.
i mean, maybe it was like this in the 90s, i don't remember. but i cant imagine spin did heavy 2pac coverage? or bone thugs coverage? those were the biggest rappers in the country at one point, Drake style. and spin fans might like that stuff, but it wasn't a part of the music-that-spin-covered was it? idk i'm spitballing i didnt really read much spin back then, at least not to find out about rap
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:07 (twelve years ago) link
(that's not intended to be an argument, with the last post i'm throwing an idea out there & seeing what ppl think about it because I'm not really sure)
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:08 (twelve years ago) link
I had a subscription to Spin in the early 90s, I don't really remember them covering hip hop at all. I remember their story on NWA and Eazy-E ordering piroggies at some expensive Russian restaurant but that's pretty much it.
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
so yeah. maybe w/ the internet and the erosion of 'genre boundaries' people 'outside' hip-hop feel more empowered to involve themselves in it & make their voice heard as to how it's 'supposed' to sound where at one time webbie might be a lot more central to what was going on in rap, now the traditional rap audience has become simply a strain of rap while spin's perspective on rap becomes another (i'm envisioning that spin chart as being like that new yorker cover of 'a new yorker's view of the united states')
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:11 (twelve years ago) link
well, i guess if you're concerned with creating a prism to reflect rap through a readership then it succeeds? i would prefer a more journalistic perspective personally― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:03 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:03 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
man, you sound like a fucking idiot sometimes
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
please spell it out for me
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:24 (twelve years ago) link
im a simple regional thug
your beef is essentially like complaining that Kanye and Gaga get all daily Rolling Stone news updates while Adele quietly sells more than either. Yes, deej, sometimes a magazine is conscious of what its readers want to read about, so you don't need to act all babe in the woods offended that a mag that had St. Vincent on the cover a few months ago is focusing on Cities Aviv instead of the more "fair" portrayal of Yung Berg or whatever.
Like seriously, the issue is hipping people to Mouse on Tha Track and Gunplay and Starlito/Don Trip. Forgive the spoon full of sugar, man.
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:26 (twelve years ago) link
ok at least we have an acknowledgement of the distortion from the top i ws kind of worried
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:27 (twelve years ago) link
i thought the chart was okay... there were definitely some weird choices but i guess there would never be a consensus on this kind of thing.
idk, deej if it's any solace, the thing is so sprawling that no one will be able to remember much of anything that's in it
― yo zuccotti (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:28 (twelve years ago) link
lol whiney wtf @ Yung Berg
yung berg should've had his own circle for "Rappers That Unsuccessfully Sold Their Souls" -- him and tyga
― yo zuccotti (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
lol "distortion"
i mean, what, when indie rock dudes were obsessed over Def Jux and Stones Throw it's not a "distortion" that P4k was interviewing MF Doom instead of JT Money
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:32 (twelve years ago) link
lets talk about other rap now i'm bored w this
e padgett recommended this short dawg mixtape to me, its got some jams
plus you get to hear Z-Ro over a Timbaland beat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR6INQbE7Mw
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:35 (twelve years ago) link
lol where is Berner
xxp
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:36 (twelve years ago) link
lets talk about other rap now i'm bored w this hardsonned in critbeef
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:36 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― yo zuccotti (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:39 (twelve years ago) link
there def was a slant in the piece towards artists that we know brandon covets but not many people actually care about (cities aviv, stalley) but i think any of us would basically do the same thing given the opportunity
i mean shit i wrote about travis porter for p4k
― yo zuccotti (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:40 (twelve years ago) link
travis porter is popular though
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:44 (twelve years ago) link
you're not getting this
christ alive i haven't been 'sonned' by anything whiney -- if anything you just admitted i'm entirely right about this
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:45 (twelve years ago) link
comparing travis porter to stalley or cities aviv like ... what?
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:48 (twelve years ago) link
If your argument is "this magazine is likely slanted to the things that its readers want to read about" then wow you're right, but also SPIN is the least of your worries, doggy
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:49 (twelve years ago) link
"Ugh, why is the New York Times talking about Guantanemo, don't they know that American Idol has more YouTube views?"
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:51 (twelve years ago) link
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, November 16, 2011 2:44 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i'm definitely getting what you're saying -- i'm saying that clearly brandon paid deference to a few artists that he likes that aren't as popular as many other artists but i would probably do the same thing. so, shoot me.
― yo zuccotti (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:52 (twelve years ago) link
i dont think the three of us are disagreeing about anything in that case
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
so how have i been 'sonned' exactly?
Because I correctly called you a fucking idiot and you changed the subject
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
can't you guys just bond over your hatred of hipsters
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 19:56 (twelve years ago) link
*sigh*
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
― shiroibasketshoes & tuxedos (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:51 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
wait so stalley is like Guantanamo in this parallel? suspect.gif
― Regional Thug (D-40), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 20:04 (twelve years ago) link