should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Truckin & Dark Star?

An average show might find Jerry Garcia, about 50 lbs. overweight, wearing an XXXXL tiedye, barely moving as he played;

Garcia never wore tie-dyes. Hanes black Ts you tard.

Also:
I would have gone with different records, and I don't think the Dead were miserable in the studio in general.

Euler is on the money here. I think the Grateful Dead's rep for bad studio work comes mostly from fans who are disappointed to hear versions of the songs that are shortened/not jammed out/played in tune. While the ones he mentions are classics, I wouldn't let that steer you away from Wake of the Flood, Blues for Allah, Go to Heaven, or the others.

I'm pretty surprised that he doesn't mention Anthem of the Sun at all, since the whole live music c&p'd with Stockhausen-influenced sound-collage thing would probably go over well with Pitchforkers.

this new band the Donkeys, hyped out on Pitchfork this morning, sounds a lot like the Dead. Which is cool with me, because I like that sound. The drummer could maybe use a kick in the ass but I am digging them generally.

also yeah there's lots of good studio Dead as I've learned over the past couple of years - I think post-American Beauty, many of their albums would have made better EPs, but they would have been great EP's. "Help Is On the Way/Slipknot"/"Franklin's Tower"/"Sage & Spirit" = a 12" I would buy twice

An average show might find Jerry Garcia, about 50 lbs. overweight, wearing an XXXXL tiedye, barely moving as he played;

Garcia never wore tie-dyes. Hanes black Ts you tard.

Acutally he wore many between '70 and '72. The bio Garcia has a photo of him wearing one.

Here's a funny little experiment to try on Grateful Dead fans:

Ask them to name more than 1 Grateful Dead song. Hardly anyone can do it.

This simply isn't true, especially considering the archival nature of so many Deadheads.

this new band the Donkeys, hyped out on Pitchfork this morning, sounds a lot like the Dead. Which is cool with me, because I like that sound. The drummer could maybe use a kick in the ass but I am digging them generally.

They're pretty cool, but I agree about the rhythm section. Bands that try to get all West Coast often confuse spacey/dreamy and sleepy. I'm more impressed by the new Warmer Milks album, Soft Walks, on Animal Disguise. It's more rooted in Neil Young by way of Palace, yet it taps a similar brand of early '70s Americana. Plus, WM goes for the Dead's expansive aesthetic. There's everything from country-rock pop tunes to jammy, free-form exploration. Good stuff.

Here's a funny little experiment to try on Grateful Dead fans:
Ask them to name more than 1 Grateful Dead song. Hardly anyone can do it.
This is what the Dead Heads do to the noobs/posers to out them! Duh!

It's more rooted in Neil Young by way of Palace,

Does this mean they do the cracky-voice thing? I can't deal with that.

fwiw will oldham doesn't really do that cracky voice thing anymore and hasn't for quite awhile. he's improvdd considerably in range and polish as a singer over the years.

noted

Does this mean they do the cracky-voice thing? I can't deal with that.

They kinda do, but their voices also flail out of tune like the Dead's (when they weren't in the studio)!

"flail" should probably be "wander" or "stumble" or "float" or...

Excellent article. You could nit-pick some of his choices, but that seems to be the point.

for some reason Kevin Ayers - 'whatevershebringswesing' (the song) reminds of grateful dead a hell of a lot. The guitar solo, or the beautiful, colorful, melancholy and happiness... I just can't figure what song it reminds me of. God I love this song

http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=51647
Here's the song I'm talking about.

yes to the original question. beware though you get sick of them fast since they're the quintessential live proposition, the poster children for dude you had to be there. howlin' rain's magnificent fiend is satisfying my dead jones these days. not that they don't sound more like skynyrd. but they've got down the cosmic americana thing i would've liked that the dead nailed more on vinyl

You fall in with some heavy pot smokers when you're in college and all they play is old tapes, and you're at a time when you're lonely and not feeling very social and eventually those tapes start sounding pretty good.

substitute "recently divorced" for "in college" in that sentence and it's pretty much true for me. i was a sort of casual dead fan by that point (having evolved from typical punky dismissiveness), but in that post-divorce wtf-maybe-everything-i-know-is-wrong state i ended up hanging out a lot more than previous with some hippie-jam types and they pretty well opened my ears. (i even listened to a bunch of phish live tapes, although i never got quite sold there.)

glad that the article also mentions that after midnight set, because dead dilettante that i am, that's one i stumbled into and really love.

everything you know is wrong
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4293/everythinwrongmx3.jpg

How could anyone be right about everything.. they would be a cocky mofo and I'd have to kill them.

http://m.assetbar.com/achewood/autaux?b=M%5ea11f09b8576e606bcb5038dfdb92fb821&u=http%3A%2F%2Fachewood.com%2Fcomic.php%3Fdate%3D02282008

should i give achewood a chance?

I was wondering if Acid Mothers Temple might be the modern-day Grateful Dead...?

I'm sure people will take great offence in both directions.

st. stevens, cumberland blues, sage and spirit (flutes), box of rain, friend of the devil (slow version from Dead Set) - I can see these songs being enjoyed by people who say they don't like the grateful dead

Here's the awesome slow version of Friend of the Devil on dead set.
So if you only like Touch of Gay and haven't heard any other good Dead, I would give this song a chance because well, it's better.

http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=51763

Search: studio Dead from s/t up through Live from the Mars Hotel definitely, or maybe even Blues for Allah. I really can't remember it very well. "Franklin's Tower" is on it, though, and I kind of always like that one. After that, there's an odd track here and there that's A-ok by me. I mean, "Shakedown Street" (the song, not the whole record) is pretty sweet, fuck the haters. I like "Alabama Getaway" they did on SNL.

Live: you are on your own. I like some of Dead Set, and that first live record, simply titled Grateful Dead (has excellent version of "Wharf Rat". was there ever a studio version of this??), um, some of Europe '72. it's really a crap shoot, imo.

i love "shakedown street" (the song, not the whole record, which i haven't heard). "uncle john's band" should go in the dead-4-nondeadheads file too.

acid mothers temple seems like a different experience to me. i mean obviously they're in the psych-improv lineage but there's a lot of metal and sheer sonic wallop in there too.

"and that first live record, simply titled Grateful Dead "
First live record is Live/Dead! Sorry to be pedant.

Here's a funny little experiment to try on Grateful Dead fans:

Ask them to name more than 1 Grateful Dead song. Hardly anyone can do it.

-- res, Monday, August 4, 2008 12:53 AM

does not compute

"as excellent version of "Wharf Rat". was there ever a studio version of this??"

It first got put on wax on Skull and Roses in '71 which is a live album. I've never heard it in studio

"and that first live record, simply titled Grateful Dead "
First live record is Live/Dead! Sorry to be pedant.

oops, yep, you're right. pedantry appreciated.

The only Dead albums I have time for are:

Anthem of the Sun, some good sound collage things on there, interesting use of live recordings combined with studio tracks and lots of audio trickery; and,

American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, which were the only times that they had great batches of songs across the board and were focused enough to put them together as coherent albums.

There's some good songs here and there on their later albums, but they've all got more than their fair share of crap and filler.

Despite the hype to the contrary though, I think their live recordings are for the converted only.

"Skull and Roses" was officially just The Grateful Dead, right? I think that's the same version I'm talking about. "Wharf Rat" and "Bertha" are two of my favorites that don't seem to reside on any studio effort. IOW, Grateful Dead/ Skull & Roses is crucial.

Yeah, you're right, Will. It is a crucial record.
I made a convert with "Bertha" once before.
Two From the Vault is the one that made me a believer.

I should get my Oneida "Heads Ain't Ready" 7 inch in the mail today or tomorrow. Tts got a cover of "Cream Puff War" b/w a cover of "Cold Rain and Snow." They totally ruled "Cream Puff War" when I saw them play it a few years ago.

"Skull and Roses" was officially just The Grateful Dead, right? I think that's the same version I'm talking about. "Wharf Rat" and "Bertha" are two of my favorites that don't seem to reside on any studio effort. IOW, Grateful Dead/ Skull & Roses is crucial.

We touched on this period in another thread: Taking Sides: Workingman's Dead vs American Beauty

Between '70 and '72, the band wrote a clutch of awesome tunes that were never recorded in the studio by the band. This includes stuff sprinkled over "Skull & Roses," Europe '72, Garcia's first solo album, as well as Weir's. This stuff has come to be known as the Dead's mythical lost album. Had the album been recorded it would've easily matched American Beauty. Thanks to Ward Fowler for posting this on the other thread:

Found my notes for the mythical 'lost' Dead album:

- Bertha (100 YEAR HALL)
- Playing in the Band (ACE - tho my preference is for one of the long jammy versions, really - the one from the last Lyceum show in 72 is pretty special)
- Wharf Rat (ROCKIN' THE RHEIN)
- Deal (GARCIA)
- Bird Song (LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...THE GRATEFUL DEAD)
- Sugaree (DICK'S PICKS 3)
- Greatest Story Ever Told (ACE)
- Mexicali Blues (STEPPIN' OUT WITH THE GRATEFUL DEAD)
- Loser (GARCIA)
- To Lay Me Down (GARCIA)
- The Wheel (GARCIA - man, Jer's first solo rec is just full of great songs AND some well wiggy 'experimental' stuff)
- He's Gone (EUROPE '72)
- Jack Straw (EUROPE '72)
- Brown-Eyed Women (EUROPE '72)
- Ramble On Rose (EUROPE '72)
- Tennessee Jed (EUROPE '72)
- Comes a Time (STEPPIN' OUT - the Garcia solo version from a few years later really doesn't do the song justice)

damn... i had no idea that many "classics" were live versions only.

thanks for the list QuantumNoise & Ward Fowler!

but those aren't all live versions. The Garcia album is awesome; I may like it more than any Grateful Dead record.

True. As I said above, the lost album was split over solo albums and the Dead's live albums. In fact, Weir's first solo album, Ace, has most of the Dead on it!

I LOVE Garcia, but I also think this would've been a classical record had it been produced like A.B. and Workingman's Dead.

oh yeah. Garcia, duh. I think I may actually have that around somewhere. Or used to. Never heard Ace.

Also, the reason why Ward put only live versions on that list is because those are by the Dead. The studio version of, say, "Sugaree," isn't the Dead.

In fact, if you scour Dead tape-trading circles you'll be able to find that actual song list as a tape/stream/whatever.

when i was 16 (and basically only listening to new wave and punk and hardcore - this was 1984) the thing that turned me on to the dead was the *what a long strange trip it's been* double album. and i still think this is an inspired collection if you want to turn someone on to the band. the great europe 72 stuff and good early stuff, etc. it does such a great job of showcasing all the dead's strengths as a band and completely omits the weaknesses.

Side one

Track four was recorded live in concert.

1. "New Minglewood Blues" (traditional, credited to McGannahan Skjellyfetti) – 2:34
2. "Cosmic Charlie" (Garcia, Hunter) – 5:30
3. "Truckin'" (Garcia, Hunter, Lesh, Weir) – 5:03
4. "Black Peter" (Garcia, Hunter) – 7:27
5. "Born Cross-Eyed" (The Grateful Dead) – 2:55

Side two

1. "Ripple" (Hunter, Garcia) – 4:10
2. "Doin' That Rag" (Garcia, Hunter) – 4:40
3. "Dark Star" (Garcia, Hunter) – 2:41
4. "High Time" (Garcia, Hunter) – 5:12
5. "New Speedway Boogie" (Garcia, Hunter) – 4:05

Side three

All songs on side three were recorded live in concert.

1. "St. Stephen" (Garcia, Lesh, Hunter) – 5:22
2. "Jack Straw" (Weir, Hunter) – 4:48
3. "Me and My Uncle" (Phillips) – 3:03
4. "Tennessee Jed" (Garcia, Hunter) – 7:11

Side four

All songs on side four were recorded live in concert.

1. "Cumberland Blues" (Garcia, Lesh, Hunter) – 5:41
2. "Playing in the Band" (Weir, Hart, Hunter) – 4:38
3. "Brown-Eyed Woman" (Garcia, Hunter) – 4:37
4. "Ramble On Rose" (Garcia, Hunter) – 6:01

That is a great best of. I've got a whole bunch of Dead stuff but only just picked that one up. Someone here at ILM pointed out that it has the studio (single) version of "Darkstar" after I said I'd never heard it. It's great, too.

Hadn't read this thread for a few days, and I figured I'd ask about that solo Garcia LP, and lo! behold! Recommendations aplenty!

Thank you ILM third eye!

Also, I've been enjoying that Mickey Hart Rolling Thunder LP a bunch. Percussion-heavy (surprise) ethnic jams, with John Cipollina, Paul Kantner, Stephen Stills and a bunch of other dudes. Zakir Hussain plays 'rain'.

Gnarly, if you dig Miles-era hippie fusion, might I suggest this:

http://vox2.cdn.amiestreet.com/band-picture/Jerry-Garcia-&-Howard-Wales_10231_page.jpg

Also for those who think the dudes in the Dead didn't get very weird, try this:

http://mutant-sounds.blogspot.com/2007/04/phil-lesh-ned-lagin-seastoneslpcd197519.html

That's some cool synth freakery from the mid 70s featuring keyboardist Ned Lagin and Phil Lesh.

There is also a tape floating about the Dead world that features Lagin, Garcia, Hart and Lesh doing some pretty out there synth stuff.

a lot of the 74 shows have a 'Seastones' interlude between sets, sometimes w/ all of the dead joining in on the jam - i think the only legit release of this stuff so far is on the dicks picks culled from the alexandra palace shows they played that year

pleased that ppl are finding that list i posted useful - it's not definitive, by any means (never been much of a fan of 'looks like rain', for example, but i remember mark richardson picking it as his favourite bob weir song, and it's def. another ACE track that the dead played a lot in concert - it's ALL of the dead on ACE, btw, whereas i think only Kreutzmann plays on the first Garcia solo rec)

Is that Mati Klarwein artwork on Hooteroll? I stumbled across a copy of that album the other week, actually, but didn't know anything about it.

I just checked the credits. It is M.K., but he's credited as Abdul Mati.

if you've even considered going to any of these shows, you want to get on that

tonight's setlist:

I: U.S. Blues, Scarlet Begonias > Fire on the Mountain*, Bird Song*, Feel Like a Stranger*, High Time, Turn On Your Lovelight*
II: New Potato Caboose > Estimated Prophet* > Milestones* > Drums > Space > Dear Mr. Fantasy* > Dark Star* > Eyes of the World*
E: Franklin's Tower
*-with Branford Marsalis (Saxophone); "Dark Star" was 2nd verse on

well, the setlist certainly looks amazing, BUT ... 3 hours of Bob singing those songs ... ? ( i'm not even overly concerned about the Warren Haynes quotient ... I assume he's "OK" in the role; but, is Bob on all those vox ? heaven forfend )

"Dear Mr. Fantasy* > Dark Star* > Eyes of the World"

Awesome.

And the set list overall is great.