Are white people who say "I don't like hip hop" yet listen to it when white people make it really saying "i don't like black people"?

best song ever.

"A pretty girl is like a minstrel show It makes you laugh
It makes you cry You go It just isn't the same on radio
It's all about the makeup and the dancing and the Oh,"

Of course, the next verse compares the same pretty girl to a violent crime...but then again using the image of a minstrel show as a means of ironic juxtaposition is questionable.

alert me when somebody gets called out on ilm for calling somebody "bitch" or "faggot"

Having said that, rap songs use the word "faggot" so regularly - and get a pass from critics so routinely, either by explaining "it doesn't really mean gay" (what the fucking fuck, who are you to tell people whether an abusive epithet commonly aimed at them is or isn't abusive in a given context) or just quietly ignoring it - that one oughtn't be surprised if he thinks "fuck a genre that on the whole thinks I am beneath contempt by virtue of who I am"

My point is: why would a gay artist have any interest in a genre which, with the exception of the (very) occasional Kanye, dehumanizes him constantly? (why, for that matter, would a woman?) I would expect a gay artist to be about as sympathetic to hiphop as a hiphop artist would be to National Socialist Black Metal.

Calling SM "indie rock" will getcha bruised! (ok, an ornery protest)

Just caught up with this navel-gazing 'controversy' on the Noise board, as I'd never click on this topic or a "jessica hopper" thread...

Cook in that Slate piece:

the whole of their sustained attack against Merritt is founded on the dangerous and stupid notion that one's taste in music can be interrogated for signs of racist intent the same way a university's admissions process can: If the number of black artists in your iPod falls too far below 12.5 percent of the total, then you are violating someone's civil rights.

O the fuckin' TM. Fuck jh and Frere-Jones with the same chainsaw.

It's clearly overboard to call Merritt a racist, but I've always been uncomfortable with his (not actually his, but similar to) views on music/culture dismissiveness toward musical pop culture. There's just something odd about the attitude that always seemed tied up in race, but not actually racist. There's one ILE pariah who does the Merritt dance quite often.

-- milo z (wooderso...), May 11th, 2006.

LOL! Theyyy calll the wind pa-riah..... That's logic worthy of Parentheses Man. Where's that film poll?

Really looking fwd to the new Dr. Octagon album, btw, as comedy records from all quarters are about all I can stand anymore (eg, Art Brut).

This is totally misleading. Didn't nabisco address this in the emp thread? does everyone just say 'nabisco otm' and not read what he writes? Ditto on the Zoilus post.

Yo, I can freak, fly, flow, fuck up a faggot/Don't understand their ways I ain't down with gays

Fuckin' mayonaise eatin', cat ownin' fancy ass indie rock old faggIt

xpost see?

yeah if you never heard an underground rap album ever before or never bothered asking anybody over 40 what they think of crunk/pop/gangsta rap

Having said that, rap songs use the word "faggot" so regularly - and get a pass from critics so routinely, either by explaining "it doesn't really mean gay" (what the fucking fuck, who are you to tell people whether an abusive epithet commonly aimed at them is or isn't abusive in a given context) or just quietly ignoring it - that one oughtn't be surprised if he thinks "fuck a genre that on the whole thinks I am beneath contempt by virtue of who I am"

isnt this dude into like wack old pre-war bicycle with the big wheel music? isnt that a genre much likelier to hate fags than rap music? and since when is this argument just about rap anyway, dude seems mostly ignorant of it & much more interested in dismissing modern r&b, probably the most gay-friendly pop genre in america! youre totally grasping at straws here, & kinda like right wingers vs 'islamofascism' using lefty signifiers to attack something from a regressive conservative, not-just-a-tiny-bit-racist stance

This fuckin' fairy looks like a queer middle aged european version of Doug Funnie.

Fuck the aja/dante krew and fuck downhicked hipster newjack bloggers.

ummm, no - its authors are perhaps as likely to harbor the same attitude (except, no, because that style of music was where a LOT of gay musicians could work back in the day), but unless you know something about 30's music that I don't, you didn't hear a lot of people calling people faggots in it. It was theater music, and theater has historically (at least from Roman times) been a place where gay men & women could work relatively unharassed.

I'm not grasping at straws; I'm just wondering (pointlessly) against why predominantly white male ilm will fight the good fight against any possible latent racist tendency anywhere while ignoring, soft-soaping, excusing, or glossing over misogyny and homophobia, which are both of them as virulent, harmful, and wrong as racism is

I'm afraid I'm a little in over my head even posting in this thread, and I know I'm responding to a tangent, but just a thought on why people might be slower to condemn things like use of the word "bitch" in hip-hop than racism in music. There's a certain amount of tension between the sexes that's just kind of a given in pop music (hip-hop totally doesn't have the monopoly on this), because so much of the subject matter is sex/relationships. and because men are historically better-represented as musicians, songwriters, whatever, there's a lot more hostility to women out there in song lyrics than there is hostility to men. so it can be hard to ascertain how much derogatory references to women in rap lyrics are, you know, deep down misogyny, and how much are an epiphenomenon of the real issue, which is about accumulated heartbreak, or whatever. obviously there are numerous clear-cut instances of misogyny, but I do think it can be fairly subjective. none of this is to excuse what I think Thomas was suggesting, that maybe dudes get a thrill out of the misogyny in rap lyrics.

on the homophobia, I've got nothing.

xpost

what ilm are you reading?

I'm not tryna fuck an indian bitch in a hurry/'cause you know they pussy smells of curry

-Kool G. Rap-chack da bitch