weird, ok
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:10 (twelve years ago) link
trustfund kids make the best music
― buzza, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:11 (twelve years ago) link
maybe some people shouldn't buy houses or make expensive records
lol @ "expensive" records
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:17 (twelve years ago) link
Steven Corn (BFM Digital) Tuesday, February 14, 2012Lowry's arguements are fundatmentally flawed. He's comparing apples and oranges (pun fully intended). iTunes is a retailer and not a label (at least not yet). He should compare iTunes to Tower Records if he wants to be accurate.Further it's incredible myopic and wrong to say that "They [Apple and Amazon] put up ZERO CAPITAL and ZERO RISK and they get 30% of the gross in return."Apple and Amazon invest a lot of money building their respective stores and technologies. It's always been a bit of a mystery how much profit they make from their respective music stores. Apple is often accused of even using their iTunes stores as a loss leader for their hardware sales.Regardless, they both put up a LOT of capital and risk.There are many other holes in Lowry's logic. But an obvious one is that label tour support is really the artist's money since it is recoupable. It's not a gift nor should it be considered profit. If an artist wants to make the lion's share, they need to take the risk. Otherwise, be content with a smaller share from labels. As for me, i support the former strategy.
Lowry's arguements are fundatmentally flawed. He's comparing apples and oranges (pun fully intended). iTunes is a retailer and not a label (at least not yet). He should compare iTunes to Tower Records if he wants to be accurate.
Further it's incredible myopic and wrong to say that "They [Apple and Amazon] put up ZERO CAPITAL and ZERO RISK and they get 30% of the gross in return."
Apple and Amazon invest a lot of money building their respective stores and technologies. It's always been a bit of a mystery how much profit they make from their respective music stores. Apple is often accused of even using their iTunes stores as a loss leader for their hardware sales.
Regardless, they both put up a LOT of capital and risk.
There are many other holes in Lowry's logic. But an obvious one is that label tour support is really the artist's money since it is recoupable. It's not a gift nor should it be considered profit.
If an artist wants to make the lion's share, they need to take the risk. Otherwise, be content with a smaller share from labels. As for me, i support the former strategy.
― pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:31 (twelve years ago) link
but artists don't have the capital - that's the point
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:33 (twelve years ago) link
then they should attempt less capital dependent forms of music making
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:36 (twelve years ago) link
http://bfmdigital.com/we/bfm-distribution-partners/
― buzza, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:36 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
As long as you're cool with never hearing any of it, that's fine.
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:44 (twelve years ago) link
I'm cool w/ it
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
Apple invest lots of money in cheap Chinese labor, they need to get something back
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
It's really reductive for Lowery to say that all iTunes does is host files. They have a recommendation engine, filterable search database, listener reviews, outgoing marketing based on users' previous purchases, etc. As does Amazon.
― The Large Hardon Collider (Phil D.), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:46 (twelve years ago) link
Brick-and-mortar stores also had "recommendation engines" known as clerks and searchable databases known as alphabetized, categorized shelves, fwiw. And I don't think they ever took 30%.
Point isn't really whether iTunes is good to artists (although it isn't) but that the "new model" isn't really all it's cracked up to be for artists.
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
iatee wait till you hear what i cooked up on garageband, hope you like preset synth pads (and i know u do)
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
people for most if human history seemed to get by w/o a stream of new and well-produced studio music. it sux but the economics behind it prob isn't there in the long-run.
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:57 (twelve years ago) link
it's gonna happen w/ lots of not-music soon
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 22:58 (twelve years ago) link
sad but true
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
it would be nice if everyone is as matter-of-fact as you are iatee, but sadly that is not the case.
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
ok, well "we're running out of natural resources anyway" is kind of a conversation stopper, if that's what you're getting at, and I think it's beyond the scope of this discussion
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
otm I should give lessons
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:07 (twelve years ago) link
xp lol waht
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
― iatee, Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:58 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ok maybe I read too much into this
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:08 (twelve years ago) link
haha I meant like. "books"
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
but anyway people "got by" without things like modern healthcare and a diverse food supply year round for most of human history so I don't see the point of that argument
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
ah, i know a lot of record stores that still take at least that much. don't know that anyone's getting rich off them, but...
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
the point is that if it's not making money it's gonna stop happening and it's not making money so it's gonna stop happening xp
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
what is, exactly?
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
capital-intensive recorded music
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
sure, but cheaply recorded music is only going to increase.
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
yes
― iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
i sort of agree with iatee here. six figure advances and massive promotional budgets are nice and all, but they aren't necessary to make an album and get it out there. it's not like the choice is between that and garageband. you can do a lot with ten grand, whether provided by a label or scratched together from wherever.
and even if piles of upfront cash aren't available for fledgeling artists, i suspect they'll continue to be stacked in front of big names with established track records.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
when paul McCartney hears this thing i'm doing he's gonna retire. he had a good run
― dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:25 (twelve years ago) link
another thing that's possibly overlooked here is music placement & licensing (ie getting $ for your music being used in ads, tv, etc.). i heard recently that one of the really big electronic music labels doesn't turn a profit on basically any of their releases, but all the money from placement/licensing goes into a common pool and essentially covers everything else.
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
i sort of agree with iatee here. six figure advances and massive promotional budgets are nice and all, but they aren't necessary to make an album and get it out there.
this is not Lowery's point. Lowery's point is that the former deal was better for the artists, which is true.
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
xposts That's all true. Again I think Lowery's point is to dispel the myth that this is somehow a better world for people who intend to make a living from music. It may simply be that fewer artists will make a living from music, and that there's nothing to be done. But it's irritating to hear the same canards over and over again - "artists can just tour more" etc.
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
another thing that's possibly overlooked here is music placement & licensing (ie getting $ for your music being used in ads, tv, etc.)
patronage system ennit
also not necessarily better for artists, at least the ones who didn't start out intending to sell shampoo or exploding robots to make a living
xp
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
And it's especially annoying to hear people constantly make claims that things that are bad for artists are actually good for them, to the point that getting all of one's music for free is not only not a bad thing but actually benefits artists
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:27 (twelve years ago) link
But it's irritating to hear the same canards over and over again - "artists can just tour more" etc.
^^^YES this is the irritating thing. stop pretending there are other streams of revenue that will make up the difference - they won't.
I still think great music is being/will continue to be made, but it will be different, we're going to be back on more of a atomized/regional folk-music sort of continuum for awhile
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
He's right that iTunes and Amazon take too much but I don't think his numbers make sense otherwise. contenderizer is right about stores - what do people think Tower made on an LP that sold for $8.99?
― timellison, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:31 (twelve years ago) link
I mean such is the progression of history. There was also a time when things called "DJ's" killed off a whole class of professional musicians who didn't even have to be recording artists, because they could make a reasonable living through playing parties and weddings and bars without ever being nationally known. Synthesized music killed off a whole class of studio musicians too, although it did create work for a smaller class of people who could program synths/electronics. Overall I'd guess that the number of people who could make a living from music declined quite a lot long before the advent of the mp3.
― happiness is the new productivity (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
lol did no one hear ever work at record stores? profit margin was nowhere near 30% unless you REALLY marked shit up
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:33 (twelve years ago) link
Hurting on all sorts of money
― max buzzword (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
Even if a store's typical markup was 20%, you've still more than made up for the difference by eliminating manufacturing and shipping!
― timellison, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
i know stores that regularly sell shit for 20% more than other stores, so a 30% markup hardly seems outlandish.
Lowery's point is that the former deal was better for the artists, which is true.
OTM, i wasn't disputing that, just agreeing w/ iatee that there will still be music in the ruins. nothing in the present situation bodes well for artists, except the ability to get their music out in front of the entire world instantaneously with no distribution or promotion.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
His point of comparison is the old model versus someone marketing themselves today, though. Is the 20-35% profit range still applicable for artists on major labels today? If so, what's the difference? Just that the other 65-80% is going to different places?
― timellison, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
how much profit margin did record stores need to get by? 20% sounds awful small. That's about costco level.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 23:47 (twelve years ago) link
steve albini:There's a part of the digital paradigm that nobody has really exploited yet. Sooner or later, there will be a "come to Jesus" moment with all the big corporate entities that hold all the rights to these recordings. I'll explain to you what it is. This is a legal avenue that someone should pursue that might open a lot of stuff up. Almost all old recording contracts were written using the model of a per copy royalty. The reason that's valid is because there's an inventory of those items and you can do accounting. The record companies have applied that model towards electronic downloads. But, from a contractual standpoint, anyone whose contract survives from the era of physical records... You cannot inventory downloads. You cannot account for their manufacture, because there is no manufacture. You cannot account for free, broken or lost-in-shipping goods. From a technical standpoint, downloads are not manufactured items. They are a "licensed use." Licensed use income typically, for older record contracts, would earn bands 50% of the income.
Right. Or far more.
Some brilliant lawyer is going to win a case, holding Sony or whomever, accountable for the unaccounted 50% income from the downloads that they've been accounting for pennies a copy as a manufactured item. Someone is going to win that case. It could even be class action; but, someone is going to win it and put all those record companies out of business.
― the third kind of dubstep (Jordan), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
They have a recommendation engine, filterable search database, listener reviews, outgoing marketing based on users' previous purchases, etc.
Each of these things on itunes blows a goat.
― how's life, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 18:07 (twelve years ago) link
same as the past, marketing, marketing, marketing.
people are having less and less time for being music nerds, not that they were ever a large percentage of buyers. telling kids what music to buy will always be the "music industry"
― nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 29 May 2012 20:01 (twelve years ago) link
great article here -- http://nplusonemag.com/chiquita-banana-jingle
― tylerw, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 21:42 (eleven years ago) link
that's a good read. lots to think about.....
― m0stlyClean, Wednesday, 1 May 2013 22:23 (eleven years ago) link