Salsa is dead, reggaeton is dead: Long live the rolling Afro-Latin music thread 2009

Shakira at the Lincoln Memorial Sunday.

Discussion of Shakira is banned from this thread.

I streamed that first La Excelencia album and didn't really like it that much. (I realize that's not the optimal way to check something out, but for a genre I'm as sympathetic to as salsa, it's generally enough to let me know what I think of something.) The fragments I've heard from the new one sound more appealing.

But anyway they get very good grades from many people who know more about salsa than I do, and I haven't given that first album a real listen in my stereo (but I still personally think they are overrated and find their coros, especially on the first album, a bit uninspiring).

I've been burned a lot by buying CDs by current New York salseros, so I am very suspicious of anything that comes out of New York these days, frankly. On the other hand, La Excelencia are genuinely a new group of musicians. They aren't part of the SHO/Soneros del Barrio pool of performers.

yeah, i admit their "newness" is part of what made me curious. the vocals don't particularly grab me out of the gate -- though they don't bother me -- but i like the grooves. which is about all i can sensibly say.

Jesse, did you end up going to the Blue Note last week?

nawp. spousal social plans interfered. my determination to see more live music this year is so far entirely theoretical...

Maybe one of these days you can come out with me on the Latin Jazz tip.

yeah i'd dig that. keep me posted on yr. outings.

La Excelencia may be new, but I don't hear them doing anything particularly new. Not that I demand that, just pointing it out. I still might be this new one, since it sounds more interesting to me than the first, from inadequate sampling anyway.

All right, Jesse, in a little bit I'm going to head up to Smoke to meet a friend to see the 10 o'clock set of Chris Washburne and the SYOTOS Band. Sorry for the late notice.

hey, i think i can make it to that. smoke is like 6 blocks from me. so yeah, i'll look for you.

Meanwhile in DC--courtesy of the Washington Post blog the Official Latino Inaugural Ball.

Hearing American Idol Season 7 runner-up David Archuleta sing the national anthem, for instance, wasn't quite as thrilling as watching Yerba Buena singer CuCu Diamante gyrating while wearing an American flag-patterned ball gown.

The '70s funk group War was the first act of the night, and the outfit ran through hits such as "The Cisco Kid" and "Why Can't We Be Friends?" During "Low Rider," the band was joined by comedian George Lopez, who played cowbell.

Mariachi Los Camperos de Nati Cano backed singers Michael Salgado, Elida Reyna, and Lila Downs. The band was one of the few acts that battled the venue's acoustics and won -- although all fought valiantly. The horns and strings sounded crisp despite the barrel-vaulted, 96-foot ceilings, which amplified every laugh, cheer, and shattering glass.

After the explosive Cucu Diamante/Yerba Buena set, golden girl Paulina Rubio emerged to sing a few songs, including "Ni Una Sola Palabra" and "Yo No Soy Esa Mujer." She was followed by balladeer Alejandro Sanz, who performed "Corazon Partio," and "Quisiera Ser."

By the time the night's marquee act, Marc Anthony, was introduced by his wife, Jennifer Lopez, the program was already about an hour and a half behind schedule. However, the salsero made the most his short time on stage. As he sung "Valio La Pena" and Hector Lavoe's "Mi Gente," Union Station's Main Hall turned into a massive dance floor.

-- SARAH GODFREY

I just went with my kid to the Lincoln Memorial event during the day (Shakira with Usher and Stevie Wonder on "Higher Ground," plus lots of baby-boomer pop-rock stuff, Bettyle Lavette w/ Jon Bon jovi, Mary J Blige...). Did not pay the big bucks for this. Unfortunately missed the unofficial Mambo for Obama and the Socarama with David Rudder and Alison Hinds.

Compiltation of recordings of songs written by Tite Curet Alonso:

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/23459.10?MGV8hX8v;;383

An obvious idea, but I don't think I've seen one before. Some favorites missing, but I think this still gives an idea of his significance.

the program was already about an hour and a half behind schedule

Surprise, surprise.

(Of course, if you like Fania era salsa, you're eventually going to want many of the albums these songs come from, and you're going to end up with a collection of his songs anyway, just scattered across many recordings.)

As he sung "Valio La Pena" and Hector Lavoe's "Mi Gente," Union Station's Main Hall turned into a massive dance floor.

augh, this would've been kind of badass.

Isn't Eddie Santiago just a salsa romantica artist? He's gonna be at Cecelia's (aka the Salsa Room)in Arlington outside DC this Saturday and I wanna make sure I'm not missing anyone I'd like.

ridiculous e-mailed press release no. 1,224,000 re Cuban-born rapper:

PITBULL
TAKES A BITE OUT OF LOS ANGELES AND SETS NEW ATTENDENCE RECORD
AT CLUB NOKIA

Isn't Eddie Santiago just a salsa romantica artist?

He is, but I like some of his old hits quite a bit (maybe because they remind me of my earliest salsa dance classes).

Like this:

This actually feels really nice to dance to, imo. I mean, really, is this such a bad song? I don't think so. I'm not sure I'd go see Eddie Santiago live though.

Not that I dance any more, or work, or spend much money, in our declining empire (but that's another story).

And yes, in fact, I will take this over any number of current New York ideologically salsa dura songs.

(This is a pretty good example of how I'm less of a salsa purist than I might seem at times. I don't hate all the poppy salsa.)

Been trying to figure out what this song is forever. Oh well, call me late but this is a jam.

Somebody should give Robert Christgau a subgenre-by-subgenre breakdown of all these current Latin acts he's asking about:

http://www.najp.org/articles/2009/02/anuncios-de-servicio-publico.html

oh mio.

Wow, the Dean wants to be schooled.

I might want to attempt that (but that's going to be a homework type thing--away from the internet). I see some people have already started. I'm a little surprised he wouldn't know who some of these acts are (but good for him for asking).

Here's a real time attempt (but these aren't going to be sentences necessarily, so I realize this isn't the response he was looking for--I'm doing this for my own amusement)):

Pepe Aguilar (Don't know), Akwid* (Mexican or Mexican-American rapper, I think), Alacranes Musicales!! (don't know), Alegres de la Sierra (don't know--sounds Mexican), Alexis and Fido (Reggaetoneros, presumably Puerto Rican), Ricardo Arjona (don't know), Aventura!! (pop bachata), Hector Bambino (Puerto Rican reggaeton), Ana Barbara (don't know), Bebe (don't know, but sounds familiar), Graciela Beltran (I should know this--is this the Machito Graciela or someone else?), Bety y Sus Canaris (don't know), Miguel Bose (don't know), Bronco (unless this was a Fania reissue that sold well, I don't know--but there was an older salsa band called Brocno), Cafe Tacuba* (rock en espanol), Calle 13* (reggaeton/Latin alternative), Cristian Castro (don't know), Manu Chao* (that guy, who I think is actually Spanish, right?), Chayanne!! (d/k), Conjunto Atardecer (d/k), Conjunto Primavera!! (d/k), Celia Cruz* (the starred ones he knows, I guess), Daddy Yankee*, Dareyes dela Sierra (d/k), Oscar de la Hoya (huh?) (d/k), Duelo (d/k), Tito El Bambino (Puerto Rican reggaeton), El Patro de Sinoloa (d/k), Valentin Elizalde (d/k), Vicente Fernandez!! (norteno, right?), Luis Fonsi (name very familiar but don't know), Ana Gabriel* (Mexican--mariachi, maybe other styles), Kany Garcia (d/k), Grupo Innovacion (d/k), Jean Luis Guerra* (boring poetic bachata/Christian Latin music), Enrique Iglesias* (I still don't really know what this guy sounds like), India* (anyway I'm skipping the starred ones), Inquietos de Norte (d/k), Ivy Queen (I think--they're on Univision, a Latin label) (la reina del reggaeton, Puerto Rican), Jaunes*, K-Paz de la Sierra (Mexican, poppy banda mixed other stuff?), La 5A Estaction (d/k), La Arrolladora Banda El Lima (d/k), La Factoria (d/k), Hector Lavoe*, Los Creadorez (d/k), Los Cuates de Sinaloa (d/k--I assume these bands with Mexican place names in their names are Mexican), Los Enanitos Verdes (d/k), Los Originales de San Juan (d/k), Los Pikadientes de Caborca (d/k), Los Primos de Durango (d/k), Los Rieleros del Norte (d/k), Los Super Reyes (d/k), Los Temerarios (d/k), Los Tigres del Norte*!!, Los Tucanes de Tijuana (d/k), Eddy Lover (d/k), Mana*!!, Victor Manuelle (salsa, often considered "salsa monga" (or soft or literally "retarded" salsa) but considered a legit. sonero by some--also does some Latin pop, Puerto Rican), Ricky Martin*, Mercyme, Luis Miguel!! (I forget), Montez de Durango (d/k), Tito Nieves (primarily salsa, but has charted with Latin house and recorded in some other genres, Puerto Rican), Don Omar (Puerto Rican reggaeton), Yolanda Perez (Mexican pop banda--did those bandaton songs that I liked and only discovered thanks to Chuck), Pesado (d/k), Rakim y Keny (reggaeton--like any name that looks kind of like that), RBD (Latin pop? or just very watery rock en espanol?), Reik (d/k), Diana Reyes (d/k), Jenni Rivera (d/k), Lupilla Rivera (d/k), RKM y Ken-y (cf. Rakim y Keny just above), Paulina Rubio*, Adan Salina Sanchez (d/k), Gilberto Santa Rosa (salsa, often on the salsa romantica/salsa monga side of things, but clearly a strong talent in more traditional styles of the music, Puerto Rican, frequently collaborates with Victor Manuelle on various recording projects), Alejandro Sanz* (Spanish, right?), Joan Sebastian (d/k), Marco Antonio Solis!! (Mexican pop of some sort, not too bad), Olga Tanon (merengue, though I believe she is from Puerto Rico), Tierra Cali (d/k), Gloria Trevi (d/k), Tropical Fantasia (d/k), Sergio Vega (d/k), Julieta Venegas (I know who she is but I'm not even sure where she is from--probably Mexican?), Alicia Villareal (d/k), Wisin y Yanda!! (that's YANDEL--Puerto Rican reggaeton, now doing bad house music with increasing frequency), Xtreme (pop reggaeton very much in the Aventura vein), Yuridia (up and coming Mexican pop singer).

I'd be willing to bet at least half my "don't knows" are Mexican acts.

I don't think most fans, as opposed to professional epxerts, could identify the whole gamut. "Latin music" includes disctinct musical worlds. (I'm not suggesting anybody involved here doesn't know that.)

now doing bad house music with increasing frequency

otm

Have you guys seen Nina's blog [url]http://lamusicalatina.wordpress.com/[url] She posted a response to Christgau also

[i]Hip Hop Dominicano is Dead?
January 18, 2009 by La Evangelista de la Salsa

Well, that figures. First salsa then reggaeton (though I like to pretend it isn’t) and now THIS? Whats left? Im almost afraid to go trolling for music lest I run across an obituary out there.[i] She linked to another blog that said hiphop Dominicano is dead

Nina wrote: Ivy Queen is the most successful reggaeton artist, she hails from Puerto Rico and is known

for her very long fingernails and her rough almost masculine voice.

I presume this should have said "most successful female reggaeton artist"?

Yep

Christgau could find some of those artists on allmusic.com and use youtube and imeem and stuff too (the Latin Grammys show on tv). Also, at the same time that he points out that he, the Dean, has never heard of these big-selling artists, he mentions how he couldn't be bothered to review a Juanes cd for Rolling Stone. I don't get it, Christgau writes up "dud" albums for his consumer guide every week and has written up many an artist like Juanes who speak in English (slick radio-friendly slightly hip rock). I recall reading a Los Tigres review in the NY Times so Pareles and Caramanica there realize to a degree that Latin music of all stripes needs to be covered. I guess Christgau did acknowledge knowing of Los Tigres.

I shouldn't have said "heard of" I should have said he wasn't very familiar with.

And yes he does the Consumer guide every month not every week.

Ha. Not too many folks have weighed in on the najp.org Christgau posting. He's already moved on to praising SFJ for a Beyonce article.

he mentions how he couldn't be bothered to review a Juanes cd for Rolling Stone. I don't get it

Maybe he was just didn't feel he was qualified to offer up a review of Juanes, whose music is way out of Bob's usual scope? I dunno -- and I know this will seem an odd thing to say about Christgau -- but it actually strikes me as a fairly humble decision.

victor manuelle + gsr were on despierta america this morning... love how utterly awkward manuelle is when not singing

Actually seeing Victor Manuelle (in video form anyway) didn't do anything to increase my enthusiasm for him. But inspired by the recent discussion, I listened to the old VM Oro Salsero (and older edition than what's available now though?) collection this morning, which has most of my favorite VM songs on it. Quite a few of these songs remind me of particularly times and people. These songs were all over when I started venturing into salsa dancing in the late 90s. Despite the flaws (such as arrangements that often seem to work at cross purposes), I think these are pretty good songs, and his performances here somehow do sound a lot stronger than most of what's come from him 1999 on. By Inconfundible the melodramatic schtick just gets too heavy, the formula too rigid. (I still hang on to that CD, mostly because of personal associations I have with the songs.) An example of his early songs (no endoresement of the video!):

Re: Christgau's Juanes comment, I too got the sense that it wasn't so much that he couldn't be bothered with it, but that he thought it would be appropriate to give it to a reviewer who might be more sympathetic to what Juanes was doing.

(I think I'm going to change this display name soon. Making "political statements" with my display name already seems like a really bad idea.)

Oh look it has a rating. I didn't know that was going to pop up.

I like this one a lot too (despite--I think it really is despite--some of the synth or keyboard sounds):

Maybe it's not real salsa to a lot of people, but I think it's good popular music.

And as long as we're talking about old chart topping Latin music, this Aventura song was huge (and remains one of my favorites):

(Monchy & Alexandra and Aventura were pretty much my introductions to bachata, which was only getting picked up as part of tropical music in general, rather than a more specifically Dominican thing, in the late 90s. Of course, to many bachata purists, this stuff is an abomination.)

Adjudging me a world kind of guy, Rolling Stone once assigned me a Juanes album; I liked it so little the project was abandoned by mutual agreement Christgau's words

He clearly listened to a Juanes cd and did not like it, the rest is subject to interpretation. I'm not even clear why he threw that into the posting. Did he want people to point out Juanes-style music so he could ignore it?

He wanted to give an example of how certain kinds of Latin romantic ballad pop might well be out of his ballpark (pretty much what he'd said two sentences earlier), and that in fact he's not expecting to love a lot of the acts listed below? (I think he also confesses in the intro of one of his books that he doesn't really get much salsa, either. Ditto much metal, actually. What's wrong with admitting that?)

Here's my additions to the R_S list:

Pepe Aguilar (major figure in mariachi, though I don't like his voice)
Akwid* (Mexican-American twin rappers)
Alacranes Musicales!! (pop norteño; I don't like 'em)
Alegres de la Sierra (don't know--sounds Mexican)
Alexis and Fido (poppy reggatoneros)
Ricardo Arjona (a balladeer, I think)
Aventura!! (pop bachata - hate these guys)
Hector Bambino (Puerto Rican reggaeton)
Ana Barbara (big florid ballads)
Bebe (Spanish alt-rock pissed off chick w/touches of flamenco)
Graciela Beltran (ranchero/mariachi singer)
Bety y Sus Canaris (don't know)
Miguel Bose (Spanish pop singer, has also acted in an Almodovar movie or two)
Bronco (I think he's referring to a norteño band)
Cafe Tacuba* (rock en espanol)
Calle 13* (reggaeton/Latin alternative)
Cristian Castro (pop balladeer, I think)
Manu Chao* (Spanish or gypsy or something - hate him but liked the first Mano Negra album)
Chayanne!! (pop balladeer)
Conjunto Atardecer (d/k)
Conjunto Primavera!! (d/k)
Celia Cruz* (well, duh)
Daddy Yankee* (well, duh)
Dareyes dela Sierra (d/k)
Oscar de la Hoya (didn't know he put out an album?) (d/k)
Duelo (d/k)
Tito El Bambino (Puerto Rican reggaeton)
El Patro de Sinoloa (d/k but can presume norteño)
Valentin Elizalde (norteño)
Vicente Fernandez!! (the motherfucking KING/GODHEAD of norteno)
Luis Fonsi (pop balladeer)
Ana Gabriel* (Mexican - sometimes mariachi, sometimes goopy ballads)
Kany Garcia (Mexican singer-songwriter, alt-pop division)
Grupo Innovacion (d/k)
Jean Luis Guerra* (boring poetic bachata/Christian Latin music)
Enrique Iglesias* (boring bilingual pop)
India* (80s club queen gone salsa)
Inquietos de Norte (d/k)
Ivy Queen (la reina del reggaeton, Puerto Rican)
Juanes (hate this guy)
K-Paz de la Sierra (Mexican, poppy banda mixed other stuff?)
La 5A Estaction (alt-rock from Mexico or maybe Spain)
La Arrolladora Banda El Lima (d/k)
La Factoria (pop reggaeton w/two female vocalists)
Hector Lavoe (well, duh)
Los Creadorez (norteño - saw a video by these guys the other day)
Los Cuates de Sinaloa (d/k--I assume these bands with Mexican place names in their names are Mexican)
Los Enanitos Verdes (alt-rock, kinda fun in a Dead Milkmen/Blink 182 way)
Los Originales de San Juan (d/k)
Los Pikadientes de Caborca (d/k)
Los Primos de Durango (norteño)
Los Rieleros del Norte (d/k)
Los Super Reyes (some weird mix of cumbia and clubtronica)
Los Temerarios (norteño/Tejano)
Los Tigres del Norte (norteño - I have 38 albums by these guys in my iPod)
Los Tucanes de Tijuana (more norteño - I own two 2-disc best ofs)
Eddy Lover (reggaeton)
Mana (the Nickelback of rock en español)
Victor Manuelle (salsa, often considered "salsa monga" (or soft or literally "retarded" salsa) but considered a legit. sonero by some--also does some Latin pop, Puerto Rican)
Ricky Martin (bilingual pop)
Mercyme (d/k)
Luis Miguel!! (Mexican pop balladeer)
Montez de Durango (d/k)
Tito Nieves (primarily salsa, but has charted with Latin house and recorded in some other genres, Puerto Rican)
Don Omar (Puerto Rican reggaeton)
Yolanda Perez (Mexican pop banda - never heard her)
Pesado (d/k)
Rakim y Keny (reggaeton--like any name that looks kind of like that)
RBD (Latin pop? or just very watery rock en espanol?)
Reik (Mexican alt-rock, ballad division)
Diana Reyes (d/k)
Jenni Rivera (sort of a Tejano Mary J. Blige)
Lupilla Rivera (I know the name but can't remember the sound)
Paulina Rubio (Mexican pop - totally insane and awesome)
Adan Salina Sanchez (d/k)
Gilberto Santa Rosa (salsa, often on the salsa romantica/salsa monga side of things, but clearly a strong talent in more traditional styles of the music, Puerto Rican, frequently collaborates with Victor Manuelle on various recording projects)
Alejandro Sanz* (Spanish pop balladeer)
Joan Sebastian (d/k)
Marco Antonio Solis!! (Mexican pop of some sort, not too bad)
Olga Tanon (merengue, though I believe she is from Puerto Rico)
Tierra Cali (d/k)
Gloria Trevi (Mexican pop, super sexy in her heyday but now post-prison not lookin' so hot)
Tropical Fantasia (d/k)
Sergio Vega (d/k)
Julieta Venegas (Mexican alt-rock)
Alicia Villareal (Mexican balladeer)
Wisin y Yandel!! (Puerto Rican reggaeton, now doing bad house music with increasing frequency)
Xtreme (pop reggaeton very much in the Aventura vein)
Yuridia (up and coming Mexican pop singer).

do not care, love aventura + xtreme

and agree with the general sentiment of manuelle, i can only take it in small doses at this point

i don't know where this original list is coming from but have n'klabe and ng2 already been hit?

also, can't have a list with reggaeton artists without mentioning dj blass, nelson, or joe

fauxmarc, Christgau made the original list from big-selling artists that he was not that familar with, and he posted the list on a website linked to above.

Chuck, not to be overly nitpicky and run this into the ground, but yea, I'm fine with Bob Christgau saying he's not into latin ballads here (and whatever in his book), but your or his attempt to lump his sentence(s) about that with his dislike of Juanes does not follow for me, as Juanes is not just a schmaltzy balladeer. He may not rock like many a rock en espanol or English act, but some of his material is way more upbeat (if still slickly produced) and to me, is very comparable to lots of new wave or contemporay pop-rock that Christgau has reviewed over the years (but just not in English).

faumarc and unperson:

I gave Aventura a mixed but largely favorable live review for the Washington Post once. I did not expect to like 'em as much as I did, although I can see how their polished pop-bachata and heartthrob schtick might rub some the wrong way.

On a different subject, I apparently made it to Circuit City's going out of business sale a week too late. Stuff is now 30 % off--only Fania reissue I could find left was Willie Colon and Ruben Blades 1983 The Last Fight that I found later described as follows online:

A movie soundtrack. This sounds like it was cut in a weekend: the two new Blades compositions are tossoffs, and the rest is rearrangements of standards. By this point Blades was seeking to complete his Fania contract as rapidly as possible. But Colón's band is so good even the most mediocre material holds your interest, and Blades' "What Happened" is amusing. (DBW

I'm actually kind of amazed that Christgau doesn't like Juanes, as it seems like Juanes would punch all his white-liberal-guilt buttons: semi-rockin' dude singing about troubles in a foreign land, charity work, pseudo-poetic lyrics, blah blah blah. I fucking hate the guy, but I figured Christgau would love him.

Re Aventura, it's not just the heartthrob schtick that bugs me, it's the guitar sound of pop bachata - I hate it; it's like smooth jazz guitar coupled to cheesy love lyrics. I can see how it would go over well in an arena full of sexy, screaming Latin ladeez.