sucks
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 04:34 (sixteen years ago) link
Wonder if there will ever be a reunion with Rollins
― Herman G. Neuname, Friday, 28 December 2007 12:47 (sixteen years ago) link
I doubt it. Greg Ginn burnt his bridges with a lot of people over the years. And according to that New York Times article from a couple of years ago, he's been estranged from his brother Raymond for a long time, too.
― MacDara, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:32 (sixteen years ago) link
It's kinda sad, actually. Raymond Pettibon has been getting more and more recognition over time (and deservedly so, I might add) but we're already at the stage where people are more likely to say 'Greg Who?' and associate the Flag with Rollins exclusively.
― MacDara, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:35 (sixteen years ago) link
First Four Years, for me. First one I heard. I go home and listen to "I've heard it Before" when I've had a bad day at work.
― Trip Maker, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:16 (sixteen years ago) link
MACHINE
― sexyDancer, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Don't need your bogus attitude, got enough of my own!
― Trip Maker, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:51 (sixteen years ago) link
WON'T WORK
― sexyDancer, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:57 (sixteen years ago) link
greg ginn is a huge cat lover. i was gonna interview him for cat fancy once, but it fell through.
― artdamages, Friday, 28 December 2007 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link
its ilx and no pussy jokes yet?
― Herman G. Neuname, Saturday, 29 December 2007 04:38 (sixteen years ago) link
Who's Got the 10Ā½?
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 01:59 (sixteen years ago) link
I've only heard Damaged and My War, so I don't feel exactly qualified to vote in this poll. But you figure one of them is going to win either way, so Damaged it is.
― Ivan, Monday, 31 December 2007 02:12 (sixteen years ago) link
Cant see anything other than Damaged winning even though more people have posted they prefer the first four years, you know lurkers will go with damaged.
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 17:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged just barely over The First Four Years.
― nicky lo-fi, Monday, 31 December 2007 19:37 (sixteen years ago) link
and the non lurkers :)
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 31 December 2007 23:09 (sixteen years ago) link
who is doing the best Black Flag vocalist poll?
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link
Damaged of course but I always loved that Live 1984 cassette esp. the slow-building intro
― m coleman, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 14:38 (sixteen years ago) link
I still to this day only own Damaged. What should I listen to next? (I liked Damaged).
― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 15:14 (sixteen years ago) link
The First Four Years
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 1 January 2008 15:15 (sixteen years ago) link
My War was decent enough, but it fell greatly below my expectations with regards to the second side. Often described as total sludge, I mostly found it boring (a lot may have had to do with the album's production, actually).
That first song is a whopper.
Anyway, I will go listen to The First Four Years and probably want to change my vote.
― Ivan, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 00:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Did anyone ever see them live?
― Herman G. Neuname, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 02:13 (sixteen years ago) link
twice: w/rollins dukowski and dez in 82 -- all I remember is the stage diving and slam dancing. sorry. then w/kira and bill in 84. meats puppets opened. ginn was jamming and the punx got PISSED OFF.
― m coleman, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 11:18 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm not suprised to see Damaged take it. It has some of their best songs. However, Rollins just doesn't deliver in the same way as either Dez or Chavo (or indeed Keith Morris) and for that reason alone I will go with Everything Went Black. It captures the sheer visceral intensity of Black Flag, lyrically, musically and vocally.
― Diablo_Rising, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 12:53 (sixteen years ago) link
i saw black flag at least half a dozen times, and gone at least 10 times (remember that these bands toured constantly for years).
i feel swayed towards 'my war' partly because i saw them tour that material quite a lot. i lost a bit of hearing in my left ear b/c of one show where i was ridiculously close to ginn's monitor, which was all guitar.
and actually -- i'm super curious if any of the people who vote for pre-rollins era flag ever saw black flag ca. '82/ '83, when dez and greg were both playing guitar and henry was the singer? i know i'm showing my age in asking that. i was only 14/ 15 at the time, myself, but i saw them in that incarnation -- as we all know though that version of the band was never well documented because of legal problems. and i know some of the early records are great; i just can't imagine preferring any earlier incarnations of the group regardless of what i may think about rollins in general.
the totally angular/ jagged/ crazy stuff that dez and greg were doing together, and how awesome henry was as a frontman when he still seemed to feel he had to prove himself. flag shows brought all kinds of people in from out of the woodwork, and there were always a lot of skinheads tripping acid, that kind of thing. there was this scary vibe but also it felt really chummy, too. hard to describe.
at one show in miami beach in '84, rollins passed around a cup for money from the audience. he said it was for money so that he could go eat at dennys afterwards. he said he was going to do "a trick" for the audience -- he was going to drink his sock juice. and so he proceeded to take off his shoes and socks and he squeezed his dirty sweat into a cup, and gulped it all down, in exchange for this extra dough.
i have never seen anyone else drink their sock juice, and i def. gave him some of my lawn-mowing money in exchange for grossing me the fuck out.
― Mike McGooney-gal, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 13:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I'm jealous of you guys. I assume you saw Husker Du, Bad Brains et al too?
― Herman G. Neuname, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 18:11 (sixteen years ago) link
only saw the bad brains twice, both shows in support of 'i against i' -- the one gig at the ritz was pretty amazing but the cb's show was so oversold that people were passing out left and right and there wasn't enough room for a pit so the place felt like a cauldron of pent-up testosterone.
husker du = one of my favorite bands of all time, and sure i saw them 5 or 6 times, too, all before 'warehouse' era. they were so incredibly loud and trebley it was really really hard to go see them. one show, them at 688 in atlanta, they were so loud and it was a pretty small club, it was so loud that you couldn't hear them, it felt like you were underwater or inside a vacuum or something -- might have even been close to mbv levels of loud.
― Mike McGooney-gal, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 21:01 (sixteen years ago) link
the totally angular/ jagged/ crazy stuff that dez and greg were doing together
that's why I vote for Damaged, the two guitar attack was never duplicated elsewhere and that is what moves my soul.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 2 January 2008 21:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Are you deaf because of it Mike? ;)
― Herman G. Neuname, Thursday, 3 January 2008 01:26 (sixteen years ago) link
actually yes -- what else could explain my love fro bands like slovenly and half japanese and trad gras och stenar and blind mamie forehand and etc?
I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY HEARD ANY OF THEM.
i just think they are cute!
― Mike McGooney-gal, Thursday, 3 January 2008 03:35 (sixteen years ago) link
supposed to say love FOR bands but i also like the idea of "love fro bands" as a genre -- ohh yeah they're another one of those "love 'fro" bands.
― Mike McGooney-gal, Thursday, 3 January 2008 03:37 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.freewebs.com/theconspirators/Britny_Fox_-_Britny_Fox-fro.jpg
scary pic
― Herman G. Neuname, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 16:31 (sixteen years ago) link
man black flag really did embrace their glam side at the end of their run didn't they
― latebloomer, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 16:51 (sixteen years ago) link
just a few hair/wardrobe tweaks:
http://www.ipass.net/jthrush/flag86b.jpg
― latebloomer, Wednesday, 9 January 2008 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link
ends wednesday get those votes cast
― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 14 January 2008 20:14 (sixteen years ago) link
the guy second from right in the above picture always looks so uncomfortable in that pic.
― stevie, Monday, 14 January 2008 20:23 (sixteen years ago) link
was he a hunchback?
― stevie, Monday, 14 January 2008 20:24 (sixteen years ago) link
That's C'el, isn't it? He was the acid-head bassist they hired after Kira left. Rollins doesn't think much of him in GITV.
― MacDara, Monday, 14 January 2008 20:55 (sixteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― ILX System, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 00:01 (sixteen years ago) link
So what's going to finish behind Damaged and First Four Years?
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link
I went for Slip It In but that's just because it's what I'm feeling lately. Black Coffee, Rats Eyes, The Bars, My Ghetto. That sums up my life experience for the last few months. Don't get me wrong, I grew up on Damaged and all the pre-Rollins stuff, but Nervous Breakdown, TV Party, Rise Above and Six Pack express a hope and sense of lightness I don't really feel right now.
― Helltime Redux, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 05:37 (sixteen years ago) link
I think My War is going to be a bit of a dark horse in this poll.
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 11:45 (sixteen years ago) link
7 hours left nearly til poll close. Vote!
― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 17:16 (sixteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― ILX System, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 00:01 (sixteen years ago) link
Ahhh! The First Four Years beaten into third by the lurking My War fans! Damn it all to hell!
― MacDara, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link
lol
― Herman G. Neuname, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 00:22 (sixteen years ago) link
ILM is doom central these days
I voted mah war
― W4LTER, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 02:23 (sixteen years ago) link
what clown car pulled up and voted for who's got the 10 1/2?
― Edward III, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 02:26 (sixteen years ago) link
I love that there are votes for every album. Somebody more obsessive than me needs to find out which other bands on ILM have had that kind of result.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 02:36 (sixteen years ago) link
otm - great album
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 01:24 (two years ago) link
Black Flag records do sound pretty murky - sometimes wonder if someone accidentally turned the treble down when they were mixing the albums
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 01:26 (two years ago) link
The treble supply was used up making the Husker Du records.
― bendy, Friday, 15 April 2022 02:09 (two years ago) link
lmao
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:16 (two years ago) link
also lmao
people say oh well it was an underground punk label they had a low budget but I think we have to accept that SST were just shit at recording punk music. there are loads of punk labels and bands from that time with a lot less sales than SST that sound way better
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:18 (two years ago) link
like Dischord releases from then sure they sound a little thin maybe but it blares out of the speakers
― even the birds in the trees seemed to whisper "get fucked" (bovarism), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:20 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp_x1BIGwUs
hello
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 15 April 2022 02:38 (two years ago) link
I think a lot of it is Spot's aesthetic. But also, those records are what they are, and I don't know if production can always be plotted on an axis of good/bad. And Meat Puppets II still sounds divine to me.
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 15 April 2022 08:06 (two years ago) link
Blight would have been a better nickname for Spot
― Maresn3st, Friday, 15 April 2022 10:56 (two years ago) link
My fav recording of the band was teh one time I saw them marquee 84. the 4 piece with Kira and Bill Stephenson. Seemed to have an element of Link Wray or similar buried in the sound alongside the writhing heaviosity. Not sure if that comes out as much elsewhere . Didn't seem to feature in Live 84 to what I could hear, I know the live video was within a couple of days of that Marquee gig so may be there. Do wonder how different taht band would have been if Kira had been writing her own parts. Not sure how long jam sessions worked with her using lines Ginn had given her. Anyway do love that sound in 84 and that particular live set is one that I have probably listened to more than any other live set. The material they were recording around taht time sounds really great in the form of the 5 piece band with Dukowski still on bass and Cadena on 2nd guitar in the recordings of the final days of that lineup and the demoes introducing the material .But that heavy, writhing thing that I think was a major influence on the stoner rock of a few years later is so great. I think it was heavily disliked in the hardcore scene at the time but presumably must have been influential there too.THink the band might be another one that was much better live. & My War was recorded with Ginn on bass under a pseudonym so means tha teh set up presumably wasn't as great as it could be. I assume the best set up for recording would have been as close to live as possible certainly not with a whole part being missing. Doesn't that effect spontaneity etc. & i thought improvisation was part of teh sound by tht point at least. I do like Damaged a lot too
― Stevolende, Friday, 15 April 2022 12:22 (two years ago) link
Love the Bill and Kira era rhythm section, and often think of what Kira told me while I was researching my Flag book, that she and Bill would rehearse the songs at half-speed, and slowly increase the tempo, so they could be both fast and heavy.
― politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 15 April 2022 17:20 (two years ago) link
I appreciated that part of the interviews, yes
Damaged sounds amazing, wtf. listen too "What I See" for the full bass/drumĀ overload attack
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Friday, 15 April 2022 17:24 (two years ago) link
would love to hear the rhythm section playing together with anybody else. has that happened at all? Like her now ex Mike Watt spent like half his career playing around in different combinations often pretty pick up, so taht wasn't a habit she got into at all was it. Like not sure who else she played with at all outside of BF & Dos with Mike Watt.
― Stevolende, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:22 (two years ago) link
My opinion on Damaged is a big challop (controp?), one of the only ones I actually have about a canonical record. But I only know the CD - maybe a poor master was the problem. But I also don't have the same issue with any Husker Du before Candy Apple Grey, or even most other Spot productions. Damaged just sounds thin, thin, thin to me. Anemic. I was SO disappointed when I got it as a teenager, and unlike a lot of other consensus classics it never grew on me with repeat listens. And I blame the production. Just not my style.
What can I say - I hate tinny-ass drum sounds. Took me decades to really appreciate something as foundational as the 808 in rap, for instance, but I got there eventually. Maybe I'll come around on Damaged, too. Songwriting-wise, I like the first side fine. And I do love the cover.
― thewufs, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:43 (two years ago) link
And sound quality aside, I'd still argue that First Four Years beats Damaged song-for-song. I'll take Bad Brains or Minor Threat over pretty much any Black Flag, though. BF were funnier, I'll give them that.
― thewufs, Friday, 15 April 2022 19:50 (two years ago) link
Spot was a terrible producer, face it. Almost everything he touched could have sounded much better. But it is what it is.
― akm, Friday, 15 April 2022 22:27 (two years ago) link