― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― strongo hulkington is a guy with a belly button piercing (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― strongo hulkington is a guy with a belly button piercing (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:40 (eighteen years ago) link
all of this has just reminded me of this:
geeta in london nov 27-dec 2: FAP? (Little Duke, Roger St, Clerkenwell, 29/11)
i strongly suspect that i'll never know what that 7am record was, or if i've heard it since. this still bothers me sometimes.
― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― toby (tsg20), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 22:02 (eighteen years ago) link
we can pay credit to ricardo's endurance though. the guy is almost undoubtedly the worlds best when it comes to playing at a messed up afterhours looking like a sweat-soaked casualty of gurn.
― rchinn (rchinn), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 22:08 (eighteen years ago) link
Debris "Static Disposal"!! omg. I wonder if that guy will start the site back up, no new ones since February ....
sorry, back to Ricardo ....
― Renard (Renard), Tuesday, 21 March 2006 22:12 (eighteen years ago) link
I think this is correct but I think this has more to do with the way in which "we" tend to talk about dance music and experimentalism and etc than the quality of the music - not that this delegitimates the claim.
That was the point of my mammoth post on dissensus comparing the two - I actually find both equally exciting but, rightly or wrongly, villalobos is exciting in ways that make many people (critics esp) grope for the word "genius" rather than, I dunno, "hot shit" or something.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:36 (eighteen years ago) link
This is what I said:
"This is what I meant when I was talking on that other thread about the difficulty of proving vanguardism. It's not so much that vanguardism doesn't exist, but that - at least today - its claim is always plausibly (but rarely finally) refutable. There is in all contemporary music a certain component of revivalism or repetition, and this becomes a sticking point for people (or not) depending on their willingness to accept the presence or echo of that which is being repeated - e.g. dub and reggae in dubstep.
Dance music provides some good examples of this. When I think of two of my favourite current producers - Ricardo Villalobos and Booka Shade - it's immediately clear that Villalobos is the one being lauded as vanguardist (to the point that I felt moved to complain on ILM that in critical terms he's becoming the Outkast of German dance music). But the argument could be made that Villalobos's Achso ep, as awesome as it is, is just reviving 80s Jon Hassell and early nineties "intelligent" techno (Black Dog and early Autechre are probably the key reference points).
Booka Shade, meanwhile, are arguably reviving disco, early UK (acid) house, early trance, early rave and detroit techno - so their reference points are maybe A Guy Called Gerald/808 State, Eye Q Records, early Warp/Ital Rockers etc, with a dash of Detroit and early Orbital in there too.
Both are providing a pretty clear "twist" on their influences in terms of recognisable production nuances and immediately recognisable sonic signatures. Neither tend to straightforwardly revive one sound in particular, but carefully combine their influences (Villalobos's "Ichso" is a Jon Hassell/Talk Talk collaboration with Black Dog on production; Booka Shade's "Manderine Girl" is, I dunno, Carl Craig gone trance through a white noise filter).
So how do we distinguish between the two?
The audacity of the translation of influences? Villalobos is drawing on stuff from further outside house's legacy, but it's not really outside techno's legacy. His chosen sources may appear to come from more disparate genres, but they actually blend together quite easily and smoothly - whereas with Booka Shade the influences rub up against one another quite forcefully and delightfully ("Mandarine Girl" and esp. the new track "In White Rooms" do quite amazing and unexpected things with tearjerker trance riffs).
The freshness of the source material? Is Jon Hassell less played out than early A Guy Called Gerald? Hard to say...
The transition of the source material from a genius context to a scenius one? Maybe, but in doing so Villalobos is increasingly being distinguished as "genius" rather than "scenius" anyway.
The radicalism of the new production stamp? Villalobos is more openly, ostentatiously idiosyncratic and epic, but I think Booka Shade are just as impressive and interesting finally.
These aren't unanswerable questions, but they're complex ones, and every juncture I just see personal taste bleeding through.
Mark's definition of vanguardism - the creation of new populations, the redefinition of the very concept of music - avoids this trap, but it does so by skirting the entire field, equally rejecting both options as being mere product. Which is fine, but it leaves us with a vacuum as to what critical language we can use to talk about these rejected options. And there is music we all like which falls into this category - Junior Boys for example, or Ariel Pink, or..."
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:47 (eighteen years ago) link
ps did my package get to australia?
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:52 (eighteen years ago) link
dissensus requires patience i think, you have to adjust to a different speed whereby there may be one interesting new thread per month as opposed to one every couple of days at least here.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 06:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 07:07 (eighteen years ago) link
(Vahid perhaps your polemaesthetic is strident pro-smeariness!)
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 09:41 (eighteen years ago) link
godammit i wish this had been released as a 12" instead of chromosul
― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 10:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― a, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link
― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― matt2 (matt2), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.roskilde-festival.dk/object.php?obj=4e342774&code=1
― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― biz, Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago) link
Isn't it the long (9 mins or more) unfolding of larger musical pieces from "micro" structures?
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 21:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 22:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:13 (eighteen years ago) link
Probably why I like it as much as any other reason. I've heard enough recycled sounds of all that "golden age of IDM" stuff.
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link
"He's perfectly content with forming luscious, pensively roiling, ten-minute grooves that double as some of the most organic-sounding electronic productions imaginable ... all patterns of percussion, save for the bumping tubs of bass thrum, could come from folk-dancing marionettes. The splats of harpsichord-like acoustic guitar seem wind-generated..."
sherburne on "confield"
"Autechre are part of a movement of artists exploring generative composition, harnessing algorithms and complex programming to create tracks that warp and morph independent of the producer's will. To whatever extent that method was used in creating Confield, the album certainly sounds like an automaton's creation. "VI scose poise" opens the album with a skittering cadence of ball-bearing rattle, seemingly without logic or repetition ... Confield's lithe processes slip nimbly from measure to measure, creating themselves anew at every turn ..."
― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago) link
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
― stirmonster (stirmonster), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:33 (eighteen years ago) link
So are Ricardo & co going to avoid the mistakes of the past on their further excursions?
I totally hear the Black Dog tone coming through Luciano's stuff incidentally, fwiw.
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:36 (eighteen years ago) link
dude, remember house music? house is a feeling!
― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:40 (eighteen years ago) link
Looking forward to whenever I get round to hearing Au Harem(House?) Luciano's SFHFi(House?) or Taka Taka(ah.. House!) though.
― file under cozy techno (fandango), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― blunt (blunt), Wednesday, 22 March 2006 23:56 (eighteen years ago) link
????
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 23 March 2006 00:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 23 March 2006 00:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Thursday, 23 March 2006 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― blunt (blunt), Thursday, 23 March 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 23 March 2006 07:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 23 March 2006 07:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― a, Thursday, 23 March 2006 08:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― a, Thursday, 23 March 2006 08:08 (eighteen years ago) link