I'm not really sure if the possibility of Facebook vanishing really convinces me that a cloud can't be reliable, I mean MySpace has been dead for years and IIRC everyone's stuff is still up there. Obviously companies can fail but I still like to think that anyone paying attention will have ample warning before a giant like Facebook goes down. I don't know anything about Carbonite but don't they have a plan in place should things go south for the company?
Don't think that personal storage as a whole is going away for a very long time, but I would think most devices we use 5-10 years from now wouldn't have a need for much data to be stored, music included
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
frogbs remember wordperfect? lotus notes? 3.5 floppies?
web-based storage is like five years old. it's still being born. amazon isn't going to be the same company in ten years. i mean, if you wanna put your baby fotoes on s3 and treat it like it's magic, that isn't my problem.
the point is preserving things doesn't just happen, you have to make it happen, and you can only rely on companies so much since it's usually lower down on the list of stockholders' priorities than pr would have you believe.
also technology and software just change really fast. no one likes to migrate. a lot of stuff falls through the cracks.
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:10 (eleven years ago) link
no one likes to migrate.
quite honestly, this cannot be reiterated enough
― Victory Chainsaw! (DJP), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:11 (eleven years ago) link
granted, megaupload's services were used for illegal activity, but a lot of folks used them legally for their ostensibly designed purpose - to transfer large files. files weren't deleted if you were a paying customer, and folks used them as a convenient online storage locker. I can't imagine anyone who was a paying customer thought the system would disappear overnight, and that their perfectly legal files would be suddenly inaccessible.
though it sounds like your angle is, "it's never happened to me, so it's not a risk", ok cool
xps
― diamanda ram dass (Edward III), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:12 (eleven years ago) link
should we have a separate thread about this?
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
i think we already have a few
― Impetuous hybrid (Matt P), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:16 (eleven years ago) link
WordPerfect is a word processor isn't it? Maybe I don't remember that one.
Again, I don't think personal storage is going away altogether, but in 5-10 years the mega-storage iPod will likely be replaced with something that just streams from either a server like Amazon or some home storage unit. In other words the idea that your data needs to be duplicated from your computer to your iPod or phone will likely be replaced with something that allows them all to use the same data.
The idea of the safe online storage locker is fairly new and I don't think the examples here really apply to what Amazon is trying to do since the whole point is just to protect your data in case of a crash. And the demand for that goes up every day. IMO it's a different issue from "will our devices have huge storage capacity", but maybe I'm lost in this argument
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, we do... and to bring this back to music this whole cloud file storage/transfer/backup/access web of problems is really immense, pretending that there's some easy cost-free way to just stream everybody's personal libraries of music everywhere forever for free is just... man, why not throw a unicorn into that deal too. it just speaks of massive ignorance about how tech companies function, make money, etc. it's hardly a "no brainer" type of model.
xp
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:19 (eleven years ago) link
y'know, who's gonna maintain it, upgrade it, update it, who's going to pay for that, who's going to have access, how are copyrights going to be administered, etc these are not minor questions
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
so far in this wonderful new internet economy we can't even get a single paying streaming service with a comprehensive library of quality music functioning, the idea that some universal immortal digital jukebox in the sky is just a few years away, I can't even..
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:21 (eleven years ago) link
no, my angle is that MegaUpload and say Carbonite are different concepts, anyone using MegaUpload as a storage locker had to be somewhat aware that its dubious legality could result in it just going away out of nothing. I think a true online storage site may operate differently.
also, I'm fully aware that RIGHT NOW uploading all your data to Amazon and formatting all your hard drives isn't a good idea, just that in the future this whole area may look quite different (as there may be a way to "guarantee" your data somehow)
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
"in the future, things may be different"
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
well Shakey for many people simply having Spotify on their PCs and phones is enough and I think the technology to stream stuff from your PC to your phone or even from Amazon to your phone already exists
"a few years" is an awful long time in the tech world
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
certainly, I don't think this service will be free
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
well Shakey for many people simply having Spotify on their PCs and phones is enough
except as noted Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit. what a great model for the future!
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:25 (eleven years ago) link
So now we're talking about the artists? I'm saying this as a "proof of concept" that most people who aren't hardcore music geeks are okay with 'just' streaming so this area may get pushed pretty hard. I don't think Spotify is the solution but the concept behind Spotify seems like it may stick around.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:33 (eleven years ago) link
I thought this whole revive was about a stupid kid wanting a digital music library available for all her devices that would, presumably, somehow, also compensate artists. and she thinks the onus is on artists and corporations to work it out. the problem is they can't.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
or maybe she doesn't care about compensation at all, I can't really tell
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
i was under the impression that the average person who uses spotify or itunes liked them! i mean like i was saying before old folks use them and if you can get old people to use them you are on to something convenient and easy.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
have always assumed spotify will increase its pricing on premium and/or limit the free service further if/when it gets enough people hooked.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
^^^worked so well for netflix
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:39 (eleven years ago) link
people ditch models when they start charging money
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
the fact that people complained about a service that allowed you instant access to so much, commercial free, that still costs just a fraction of what cable does kinda boggles my mind
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
netflix had crap selection though. If netflix had spotify-level selection, or if it announced upgrade to that level of selection at the same time as the price upgrade, I think more subscribers would have stayed.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
bingo, and if Spotify sticks around as is for another year or so and then starts to charge, I think people will pay
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:57 (eleven years ago) link
I pay $10/mo. I'd probably pay $20/mo -- still cheaper than a pay CD/MP3 habit.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:58 (eleven years ago) link
Plus amazing convenience -- having an entire record library on your phone, on your work computer, etc.
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
i know this isn't the scope of this conversation, but i've often wondered about whether we'll have more text/photo/media artifacts from 2012AD in 3012AD than we have from 1012AD today. seems like physical media can stand up to time + decay much better than digital media. on the other hand, we've gotta be producing so much more even physical media in 2012 than we did in 1012. if the grid goes down and the internet ends bc of something catastrophic (would not be the first knowledge catastrophe in history) we're gonna be fucked. of course, if that happens we might have more pressing concerns than losing the pics from that trip to cancun
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
we produce way more physical text/photo/media artifacts in 2012 than we did in 1012. 1992 vs 2012 might be a better comparison.
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:10 (eleven years ago) link
but it is something I worry about sometimes. How am I going to listen to these mp3s after the apocalypse?
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
if this service really was unlimited I can see paying $250-400 a year for it
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:12 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy even more horrifying than that is the fact that every kid born this century is going to have access to a bunch of embarassing Facebook updates and pictures from their parents. Will you want to run for president in 2036 and have someone dig up the time you "liked" that "drug test the poor" image? I sure as hell wouldn't.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
that just seems like old stuff in new form. parents have always left children with embarrassing legacies - digital or otherwise
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:17 (eleven years ago) link
if the grid goes down and the internet ends bc of something catastrophic (would not be the first knowledge catastrophe in history) we're gonna be fucked.
I think about this a lot. no one will be able to make/do anything.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:23 (eleven years ago) link
people probably won't even remember how to do basic math
that's why I still own my solar powered calculator from high school
― silverfish, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
oh come on, people will always know how to do basic math - who's going to maintain the cloud otherwise?
― mississippi joan hart (crüt), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
lucifer's hammer taught me to keep a copy of 'the way things work' in a ziplock bag
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:25 (eleven years ago) link
i would pay double for on demand netflix if they had real movies premiere every week. you know movies that people have heard of. i don't even know what we pay for netflix. we don't have cable anymore. since we moved last summer. don't miss it. netflix worth it for me. i would never even think about buying a dvd. unless it was a dollar.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:27 (eleven years ago) link
except as noted Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit.
People should stop making blanket assertions about this. Plenty of industry reports suggest otherwise.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
is that why entire labels don't want to play ball with them
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
There might still be problems with royalty rates for smaller labels - I don't know. I think just about every major label is on it and, as I said yesterday or the day before, you'd think that they would negotiate something substantial. I keep seeing the third of a penny per stream thing mentioned as something in the ballpark.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120604youtube
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
There you go.
― timellison, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
I keep seeing the third of a penny per stream thing mentioned as something in the ballpark.
this is the part where I say "Spotify doesn't pay musicians shit"
― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
lol @ paying out LESS THAN NAPSTER
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
i go to the library all the time and read books there and don't pay anything (besides taxes) for the privilege. i pay spotify ~$12 a month to listen to their collection ad-free. they have legal agreements with labels (not all of them - no tzadik, sadface) that allow them to stream the music to me. why should i feel guilty about paying spotify to listen to lots of music, and not feel guilty about reading all the books i want for free?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
libraries are not a good analogy
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:43 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno if you should feel "guilty" per se, that achieves nothing
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
why are libraries a bad analogy? bc we believe everyone should have free access to books but don't have a similar ideology about recordings?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link