SIMON REYNOLDS DISCUSSES CURRENT DANCE MUSIC IN TODAY'S NY TIMES

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FYI: Last 10 "rock" songs to hit #1 ("rock" in quotes because you could argue some aren't really rock, like "Butterfly" and "One Week" are rap songs):

2002 Nickelback, "How You Remind Me"
2001 Crazy Town, "Butterfly"
2000 Creed, "With Arms Wide Open"
2000 Matchbox Twenty, "Bent"
2000 Vertical Horizon, "Everything You Want"
2000 Santana, "Maria Maria"
2000 Savage Garden, "I Knew I Loved You"
1999 Santana f/Rob Thomas, "Smooth"
1998 Barenaked Ladies, "One Week"
1998 Aerosmith, "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing"

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:11 (nineteen years ago) link

"I Don't Want to Miss a Thing" isn't rock, it's dreck.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I love that Satananta track!

.ada.m. (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Jay, where do you get these lists of #1s?

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:15 (nineteen years ago) link

hstencil you are nuts, that is one of the best power ballads of the last ten years!

.ada.m. (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:16 (nineteen years ago) link

fuck a power ballad. aerosmith used to be a ROCK band.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Wow, do you REALLY consider that Barenaked Ladies song to be a rap song, John? It's got rapping in it, but it's pretty plainly a dorky rock song with rapping in it more than it is a straight up rap tune.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Monday, 24 January 2005 04:18 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't personally, but I was trying to pre-empt any possible challenges to whether or not those songs were rock.

Bill -- there's a Wikipedia page that lists all the number ones.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:20 (nineteen years ago) link

i mean "dream on" is a power ballad that rocks. i wish aerosmith broke up like after "permanent vacation" tho.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:23 (nineteen years ago) link

!

cold blooded, Monday, 24 January 2005 04:28 (nineteen years ago) link

This is a surprisingly versatile thread.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Monday, 24 January 2005 04:29 (nineteen years ago) link

perpetua - Mike O. upthread called it a rap song. Maybe tongue-in-cheek.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:30 (nineteen years ago) link

c'mon man, aerosmith's comeback was cool at first, but they've been stinking up shit for years.

btw I bet all the detroit techno dudes are fans of "toys in the attic" or something.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I can´t believe people are still persisting to wonder why hiphop isnt in an article about why dance music never broke big in the US. Dance music has a fairly clear meaning, as I said already, nobody´s saying you can´t dance to hiphop, for christ´s sake.

And I think the extent to which some dance music is dedicated to being made for dancing goes way beyond the extent of the same in hiphop. And if that´s going to be read as a value judgement then rest assured it´s no more than a personal one.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Thanks Jay, this is real useful.

That's a pretty dire list of #1s. Of those, the only ones I really like are Crazytown, Vertical Horizon, and "Smooth".

The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:33 (nineteen years ago) link

It's a bit like bioengineering a creature that's a big blog of tits, asses, and vaginas and expecting straight men everywhere to want to fuck it.

hahaha!

cold blooded, Monday, 24 January 2005 04:34 (nineteen years ago) link

"(TONS if you count disco as "dance", which "dance" gatekeepers like ronan and reynolds generally don't), "

oh whoa there I am fairly sure I am of the generation of dancekids that have a reverence for disco, whether that´s based on actual knowledge or not. ie even if my disco knowledge is not impressive beyond a goodish sense of italo.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Some of those late 80s Aerosmith songs are pretty okay, but they really hit the wall in the mid-90s with those Alicia Silverstone videos, and they only get more desperate from there on out. "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" is obvs their nadir, making even that Honkin' On Bobo thing seem like a good idea in relative terms.

Matthew "Flux" Perpetua, Monday, 24 January 2005 04:35 (nineteen years ago) link

DETROIT TECHNO DUDES SAY: "STOOGES, ALICE COOPER BAND, AND MC5. NOTHING ELSE. FUCKAZ!"

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:35 (nineteen years ago) link

70s aerosmith is the then equivalent of whatever great dance music is coming out now tho. "WALK THIS WAY," peeeps.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I can´t believe people are still persisting to wonder why hiphop isnt in an article about why dance music never broke big in the US. Dance music has a fairly clear meaning, as I said already, nobody´s saying you can´t dance to hiphop, for christ´s sake.

I think the reasoning is that hip-hop displaced any chance of the euro-definition of dance music from making it in the states.

[/broken record]

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

detroit techno dudes are cool. any dance music dudes are cool as long as they're not like "i hate rock" or whatever.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:38 (nineteen years ago) link

or "i hate anything," really. most people i've met who make music are generally open to all sorts of things, and don't think so much in genre-bound terms.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:39 (nineteen years ago) link

AND KNOWLEDGEABLE VERSATILE TECHNO DUDES ADD NEIL YOUNG CUZ OF THAT ELECTRONIC ALBUM THING.

Jacob (Jacob), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:39 (nineteen years ago) link

as long as they don't dance to "southern man."

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link

hiphop is extremely popular in Europe too, why is there no room for dance to be as successful as it is in Europe even, now, at a time of supposed dance recession.

the argument that dance was never going to be successful in America is only valid with the benefit of hindsight.

I bet plenty of the Detroit guys hate rock, but I´d imagine that was more the case in CHICAGO. techno purists are lapsed rock kids.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:42 (nineteen years ago) link

SAY IT LOUD, I LOVE RAP & I'M PROUD
ROCK MUSIC IS A THING OF THE PAST
SO ALL YOU LONG HAIRED FAGGOTS CAN KISS MY ASS

-- Schoolly D, "I Hate Rock And Roll" (1986)

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:43 (nineteen years ago) link

hahaha schooly d rules. he is the rockingest hiphop dude.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't help but think that I'm an example of the typical American dance music (or electronica, or whatever the hell it's being called) listener. I think this thread articulates pretty much every insecurity about a portion of my music interests for a few years when I was doing more consuming than conspicuous listening and feeling that I was really into dance music, or electronica, or whatever the hell I called it. Shame.

mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:47 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost to hstencil: Given that "The Signifying Rapper" (some Smoke Some Kill) is basically a cover of "Kashmir" with Schoolly D just talking over it, I'm sure "I Hate Rock And Roll" was pure hyperbole.. although reading this 1986 era interview on the back of the Say It Loud, I Love Rap, and I'm Proud 2-LP reissue, he does have some issues about hip hop vs. rock music at the time. Interesting read..

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:48 (nineteen years ago) link

"Because RUM DMC play rock & roll, everyone expects us to do the same. But I'm concerned with my own personal rights & feelings and I'm just taking rock and roll back to the rawness from which it came which is virtually rap. I'm also dealing with the hypocrisy in rock & roll. Everyone comments on the violence in hip hop and the fact that I make no secret of carrying a gun but everyone in America carries one including old ladies. They say that wherever you play hip hop it gets violent but we've been playing in front of rock audiences with Big Audio Dynamite and their reaction of throwing things and spitting on us to show their appreciation just confirms what I'm singing. And look at groups like Led Zeppelin and those other freaky long haired guys who were breaking up their equipment on stage and in hotels. I am proud of the honest of my rap."

-- Schoolly D (1986)

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Haha, I like the idea of rude Big Audio Dynamite fans..

"FUCK YOU ASSHOLE! E = MC SQUARED!! THE OTHER NINETY NINE!! FUCK THESE BLACK GUYS!!"

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:54 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - man he is the best.

hahaha i like the idea of big audio dynamite fans. that shit sure didn't age well.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:55 (nineteen years ago) link

I'll fully admit that there's a good mini-LP of great songs in the B.A.D. catalogue... *tries hard not to smirk* and they actually had a great acid house b-side circa their most hated album Megatop Phoenix.. then again, I haven't heard it in ages, and it may not have dated well either.

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 04:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i think my brother loved megatop phoenix.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I reread gen ecstasy the other day and its amazing how much it affected the way i look at music as an outsider to this european dance culture.

To sum up my feelings about this article, though...I'd rather just listen to "Weak Become Heroes."

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:01 (nineteen years ago) link

F-PUNK! (xpost)

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:01 (nineteen years ago) link

god some of the stuff on this thread, as I read through.

the phrase "dance music" would not exist to Americans if it wasn´t for house/techno etc. it´s not even an American term, so less of the co-opting it for ludicrous argument please.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:04 (nineteen years ago) link

i was seriously thinkng of "c'mon every beatbox" earlier today.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:04 (nineteen years ago) link

house and techno are american, ronan!

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:05 (nineteen years ago) link

the phrase "dance music" would not exist to Americans if it wasn´t for house/techno etc. it´s not even an American term, so less of the co-opting it for ludicrous argument please.

huh?!

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I get such weird feelings from things Reynolds' book and the Harvard class. Reading and discussing music that's classified as "dance" seems to really blow away some of the context. Has anyone written anything on exactly how people dance to particular music? Even better, archival video.

mike h. (mike h.), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Europeans invented dancing!

Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:08 (nineteen years ago) link

x-post

Mike O. (Mike Ouderkirk), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Half the foundation of dance music, period, is James Brown.. as American as you can get. If anybody in the dance music arena even attempts to deny this...

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Hold on, let's not misinterpret Ronan here...I still think he's wrong, but I don't think he's claiming European origins for house and techno.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:11 (nineteen years ago) link

there was no genre called ´dance music´ until electronic dance music came along. and Europe defined this, regardless of where the tunes that were being played were from.

that´s why this silly tacking on of hiphop onto the name is so stupid, the entire thing came from electronic music, house or techno or whatever. people did not simply say ´dance music´ beforehand. dance music is a specific genre name. it does not have exclusive privilege in terms of being a style of record people dance to.

in other news, rock music is not all that rocks. many people who make country are from the city. NOT ALL VACUUM CLEANERS ARE HOOVERS.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:11 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost -

no he's not, but he's claiming european origins for the phrase "dance music" in reference to house and techno, which is kinda silly. before house and techno got to europe, did the people in the states who played it and listened to it not think of it as dance music or even call it that? i doubt it.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:12 (nineteen years ago) link

stencil, it doesn´t matter if it was Europeans or American dance producers, the point is that you guys are wondering why an article about ´dance music´ doesn´t mention hiphop, when as you admit the very phrase came about as a result of house/techno.

there was no such genre as dance music until dance music.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Ronan, you're sounding very desperate now. "Dance music" was definitely used in the 60s when James Brown was at his prime.

This whole argument of specific terminology is extremely silly, actually.

donut christ (donut), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:15 (nineteen years ago) link


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