Creedence Clearwater Revival vs the Grateful Dead vs the Band

also guys it's FOGERTY

or all that shit marsh wrote about queen being "fascist"! freddie had to be! you gotta make those fuckers rock.

i dunno, the crowd there seems pretty confused and lost too

Queen aesthetic is pretty fascist tbrr

For everyone who ever wondered what "Bayou" would sound like with Daltrey singing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZbdN2dWJxw

It always seemed like CCR didn't really get fawned on at the time in the 60s by the rock press like the bands on the other side of the bay

I've always taken this to be true--said as much upthread--but the truth is, I don't really know; I was too young at the time. I just checked Jon Landau's review of Mardi Gras that I have in a collection of RS reviews, and, at the very end, he calls it "the worst album I have ever heard by a major rock band." Double-edged sword--that's at the end of a paragraph where extols their singles, and he does call them major.

"he extols"

Queen aesthetic is pretty fascist tbrr

― the choogler and the chosen one (Shakey Mo Collier)

That's what they also said about Devo.

All 3 of these are bands I would never have listened to had I not read ILM. As it is I've still never heard the Band and don't really like much by the Grateful Dead that I've listened to, but I basically love CCR. Favourite CCR album track is Effigy off Willy & The Poor Boys.

Queen aesthetic is pretty fascist tbrr

― the choogler and the chosen one (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, August 10, 2012 3:55 PM (42 minutes ago)

imperious, imperial even. they are called "queen", after all...

equating devo w/ fascism is lunacy

I don't know who leveled that charge at Devo, but I don't think it was Marsh. He did call them "Meat Loaf for college kids," though, which is otm.

It always seemed like CCR didn't really get fawned on at the time in the 60s by the rock press like the bands on the other side of the bay

This surprised me too, but I've done heaps of research on it, and it's amazing how true it was. They're weren't exactly derided per se, but they were scoffed at as a second-rate combo who were opportunistic posers at best. Funny now, because Fogerty's been more consistent in his approach to music than most of the "other side of the bay" crowd turned out to be.

Here's a description from "Chronicles" that spells it out a bit:

Guided, perhaps, by musical snobbery or roots-rock phobia, some people inexplicably don't like Creedence Clearwater Revival. As the kings of earnest country-inflected rock in an age when radical stances were de rigueur, CCR sported straight-ahead tunes, and may have seemed a bit unhip. But their music stands the test of time with a vengeance. For the doubtful listener, this outstanding, 20-track hits collection has evidence of their greatness in staggering abundance.

Are those Marcus's liner notes for Chronicles, though? That's why I'm wondering if I internalized this view from a small group of critics who loved them. Marcus did, Christgau did, Marsh did, Willis did...I'm trying to figure out who didn't love them at the time.

Meltzer did not.

dead/forgery

lol, thanking u

They're weren't exactly derided per se, but they were scoffed at as a second-rate combo who were opportunistic posers at best. Funny now, because Fogerty's been more consistent in his approach to music than most of the "other side of the bay" crowd turned out to be.

Wasn't that consistency part of the problem though compared to what the other bands of the time were doing? It's part of why I can't really get into them as an album band because everything gets so samey. I think it's also why I didn't realize how great they really were for a long time, because I knew I liked their songs when they came on the radio or whatever, but I never realized the sheer volume of totally classic, recognizable hits they made. Kind of like Hall and Oates in a way.

I can easily see how music fans at the time would have underrated them. They almost released too much too fast but never had the kind of major "ALBUM" album that had become the in thing at that time.

I don't know who leveled that charge at Devo, but I don't think it was Marsh. He did call them "Meat Loaf for college kids," though, which is otm.

― Sun? Sun? It's your cousin, Marvin Ra (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, August 10, 2012 4:52 PM (48 seconds ago)

i'm trying to parse that. "meat loaf" = ironic joke rock? makes sense if that's the read.

also guys it's FOGERTY

― the choogler and the chosen one (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, August 10, 2012 3:54 PM (1 hour ago)
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/fogarty.png

I don't know exactly how I'd describe CCR, but "earnest country-inflected rock" is not it. I think "rock" is the only part of that that comes close.

Not to go off topic, but "Meat Loaf for college kids" was Christgau:

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=devo

Ah, indeed. I'll have to re-read the Marsh Devo writeup, but he did credit Christgau with that line, iirc.

Huh another completely terrible take by xgau expressed through a nonsensical one liner, whaddya know

CCR is to classic rock what Ramones are to punk rock.

Well, not really "classic rock" as a genre, as I see it. I'm not even sure that the local classic rock station where I live plays that much CCR. (Seems to me that I've heard them on oldies stations more over the years.) CCR might be to something what the Ramones are to punk rock but I'm not sure what that is. I get the idea that they're sort of archetypal, but it's not really to some identifiable, actual roots rock thing that you can put your finger on.

They're an archetypal 1970 pop band, basically.

"roots rock" comes pretty close to naming it. i suppose you could call it rock americana or rock-as-folk music. whatever unites bob seeger, X, green on red, etc. reminds me of that 80s beer ad with the long ryders, where one of them says, "i think rock & roll is folk music, cuz it's music for folks."

anyway, did CCR invent nostalgia for olde america in rock?

The Charlatans were doing that to a degree (and very differently than CCR) in 1966 with something like Robert Johnson's "32-20," or the saloon-type music they'd play.

These guys, too.

http://www.jmeshel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/basementTapes.jpg

The Lovin' Spoonful had a distinctly American nostalgic aspect.

Well the entire folk revival did, really.

"Summer in the City" predates Fogerty's vocal style, I think.

duh, yeah, of course CCR wasn't there first. sorry. occurred to my on my evening walk that dylan is probably the single person who most deserves credit for bringing that folk- & country-derived sensibility into rock music. but more than any of the others i know of, CCR made it "rock" in the algerian goalkeeper sense. like attached it to the chuck berry --> jerry lee lewis --> early beatles --> sonics/wailers lineage.

never really enjoyed ccr. fogerty's voice grates. plus not a fan of that rootsy rock thing,or at least their way of doing it. go choogle somewhere else. tho fogerty is really impressive in that footage of him doing fortunate son with the dead, gotta say...

the band, eh whatever. kind of annoying

i do like a lot of grateful dead stuff

the band minus dylan, i should emphasize

were CCR critically neglected because they were pop, in a certain way? the way their albums are set up--cover versions, not much "concept", singles-dominated.....they seem just a little old-fashioned: they're making pre-Sgt-Pepper LPs in the post-Pepper era.

I don't think any of the roots/rock comparisons for CCR quite work, Pop Americana mythos/bullshit purveyed by Californians--the most revealing comparison, for me, would be the Beach Boys.

lol i had no idea they were from california! i honestly thought they were from louisiana. or wherever you would be from that would make one pronounce "burning" in the odd way he does in proud mary

i dunno. the beach boys at least sung about the culture in the region of the country they were from.

possibly what ruined ccr for me was seeing a tv commercial for a greatest hits of theirs which ran constantly for a year or so when i was a kid. i don't know if i had even heard them on the radio before that point, but being exposed to several seconds snippets of their most famous songs ad nauseam kinda ruined them for me. again, it's fogerty's voice. plus that centerfield song he did. yuck

put me in coach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyDT828gmFc

I remember those CCR commercials. I thought they were hilarious at the time. At some later point, I checked Chronicle out of the library and my life-long infatuation was birthed.

The only other person I've ever heard say "boinin'" like Fogerty is David Lee Roth. I assume DLR lifted it wholesale from John because it sounds oddly cool.

foetus too

dark gods boint my evil soul

haha

oddly felt would cover the old man down the road in live settings. just seems odd to me, like learning that vini reilly is covering bad company or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZaU3VtMfoM

totally forgot Foetus! The tense threw me off.

I suppose because of Fogerty not owning his songs I had the plesaure of hearing "Down on the Corner," "Lookin' Out My Back Door," etc licensed in the eighties for grocery store commercials.

I remember the day I discovered the subtle nod to Up Around the Bend in Wish You Were Here, though. See if you can find it!

staleprince otm

possibly what ruined ccr for me was seeing a tv commercial for a greatest hits of theirs which ran constantly for a year or so when i was a kid.

haha this commercial is one of my earliest musical memories + is the reason why CCR was my first favorite band

"i dunno. the beach boys at least sung about the culture in the region of the country they were from." yeah, but--the culture of California IS fantasy, right? It's not like the Beach Boys presented themselves as realist chroniclers of quotidian California....

(btw I like both varieties of bullshit mythos in question!)