Bolt the door, Varg is loose!

what if you don't like metal but you like the idea of nordic peoples throwing off their oppressors

i suppose there are other tshirts out there for you

I mean I'll admit there's not much difference between being 1/4 republican and being an unrepentant racist murderer and hate crime aficionado

i don't support the art of vocal, influential, philosophically committed bigots of any sort. a peculiarity of mine. i'll allow someone else to be "brave" enough for that, thanks.

what if you don't like metal but you like the idea of nordic peoples throwing off their oppressors

― goole, Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:20 PM (2 minutes ago)

i'd be more down with this if these fuckers were in any sense oppressed - and if the church burnings weren't a crime against art and history on the level of the taliban's destruction of those buddhist statues.

http://av-geek.com/d/11345-10/Its+a+Joke+Son+1947.jpg

don't fuck with my opprobrium

seemed like a good excuse to work my "crime against art and history" thing in. you have to imagine the flash pots.

Burzum is a special case, where you just can't separate the band/project from the asshole. Weird.

I'd argue that there are probably two separate issues. One is the music, which boils down to individual conscience, the other is the t-shirt which, to some degree, might not. Someone wandering around listening to Burzum or Skr3wdriv3r on their iPod makes zero impact on the people they come into contact with, someone wandering around flashing a sign that they <3 those bands might not. If someone who isn't white walks into a bar and sees a bunch of guys in Burzum / Skr3wdriv3r t-shirts in there, or walks down a dimly-lit street and sees a dude in a Burzum / Skr3wdriv3r t-shirt coming towards them and is made to feel uncomfortable, or even threatened by that, it stops being all about the dude in the t-shirt.

I thought nobody actually listened to Skr3wdriv3r except actual racists because Skr3wdriv3r's music is hideously incompetent drivel

There are certainly some people who don't see themselves as racist who like the earlier work.

But Mayhem's Ordo ad Chao seems leagues better than literally anything Burzum's ever done.

I also find it somewhat disingenuous to make no artistic/moral distinction between Burzum and Skrewdr1ver, in the same way there's a difference between a Polanski film and actual kiddi3 pr0n. That said, walking around in a Burzum shirt *is* making a statement.

i'm skeptical of anyone who claims to like burzum and not be at least partially interested in the varg spectacle. also, it's natural human behavior to be titillated by crazy dudes burning down churches. u don't have to approve of an accident to want to rubberneck

― Mordy, Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:27 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd never claim not to be interested in it; it's a pretty riveting story. Don't know if I'd go so far as to say "titillated", and I didn't check out Burzum *because* of the gory stuff surroudning him. I'd heard enough compelling stuff about his music from people I trust, and in fact in some other thread contenderizier mentioned I should probably check out some of his stuff since I was digging on Transilvanian Hunger so much!

I would probably never wear a Burzum t-shirt, though. Unless it just said "HØHHH" on the front and "WAUH!" on the back.

Ordo Ad Chao is a great and very underrated record, but that's just challops - I mean even if you're not really into the repetitiveness, consider the influence it's had on pretty much everyone that came after.

I seriously think Varg has a almost completely tin ear when it comes to atmosphere. He gets in some good riffs, nobody can deny that. You're right about the influence obviously, but mark s liberated me from placing too much weight on influence. Ordo stands with monuments of the genre as far as atmosphere & effect & album continuity imo, it's nearly flawless.

Oh man, I actually think he has a knack for atmosphere... "Tomhet" and "Rundgang der blah blah" being obvious examples, but, like, "Naar Himmeln Klarner"! He gets a lot done in the atmosphere department with very few ingredients. Have you listened to "Jesu Dod" or "Dunkelheit" on a decent setup? There are so many little micro-riffs and layers in there to unpack; I feel like I hear a new flourish every time I listen to those songs. I suppose that sort of complexity isn't at all synonymous with atmosphere but if you're gonna object to the word "influence" mark s-style then I'm not sure how much weight you should afford the word "atmosphere"...

Ordo stands with monuments of the genre as far as atmosphere & effect & album continuity imo, it's nearly flawless.

Tons of ppl stump for all skrewed up the ”pre racist” skrewdriver album

I think theres something gross about white dudes walking around with burzum shirts and not considering the message that could send to ppl for whom racism is more than some internet circle jerk debate club topic

Fair enough, but how many of those ppl really see a Burzum shirt as anything else but just another black t-shirt with a band logo in Olde English font?

How many is not relevant

99.9999% of people you see when wearing a burzum shirt will have no idea who they are, neither will they care.

Several people have said that in this thread... Really? The idea that people would buy a shirt with a word on it and not know what the word meant is very odd to me.

People do things all the time that they don't understand because it's cool on the surface. Same with Burzum ... underground music with a touch of Charles Manson and outsider art. I can understand why art school types would like it, Burzum might just be this decade's Joy Division t-shirt.

If you can't see how the possibility of giving someone the implicit message that you are cool with racism &nazism should outweigh your own ”need” to wear a burzum shirt, and you're older than like 16, I don't know what to say

99.9999% of people you see when wearing a burzum shirt will have no idea who they are, neither will they care.

― Blue Collar Retail Assistant (Dwight Yorke), Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:31 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Several people have said that in this thread... Really? The idea that people would buy a shirt with a word on it and not know what the word meant is very odd to me.

― Clarke B., Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:33 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

pretty sure he meant most of the people that SEE a burzum shirt know who the band is, not most of the people who WEAR a burzum shirt. i'm still kind of puzzled by aero's implication that most of the people who wear burzum shirts haven't listened to burzum albums, which if true is bizarre.

0 - knows no Burzum
1 - "somebody in the NBM scene is a murderer"
2 - has listened to Jesu Dod on Youtube
3 - owns and wears a Burzum t-shirt
4 - can spell Count Grishnackh without checking
5 - Filosofem on the Winamp
6 - owns all albums, has met Necrobutcher but had the decency not to ask
7 - "I will subscribe to your newsletter"
8 - ???

profit, i think

x-post to some dude:

Ah, you're right; I didn't notice the "when" in "see when wearing"... That's kind of an interesting point, actually. I would guess that people tend to wear Burzum shirts more as a wink to other people "in the know"--they fully acknowledge that 99.999% of people they pass won't know what their shirt means, and that the ones that do probably won't come up and punch them for being a racist. Wouldn't be quite the same thing to wear a Charles Manson t-shirt.

Isn't half this sad chump's music super boring Fischer Price My First Dead Can Dance Album (tm) bullshit anyway?

8 - signed original pressing of Daudi Baldrs

xp yeah (8)should be "will defend the music on the prison albums"

-1 - wears the shirt because Burzum's a word from Lord Of The Rings and the letters are maybe Elvish

9 - owns all his books
10 - has read them

lolllll

and that the ones that do probably won't come up and punch them for being a racist. Wouldn't be quite the same thing to wear a Charles Manson t-shirt.

People do things all the time that they don't understand because it's cool on the surface.

yeah but once you're older than 16 surely you see that this is a really stupid thing to do

Agreed. I wore Burzum and Death in June t-shirts in high school, and it struck me that it may not be a cool thing to do ... I imagined if a Jewish friend or something happened to know the death's head symbol or knew what Burzum was about would see it and feel weird, and bottom line didn't like the idea of fronting for the ideas those things represented. Made me feel pretty guilty so never wore them again.

I'm not a Burzum fan but yeah one of the very best things about being a metal classical and film score geek is not needing to stress about what's corny

OTM

You don't need to support Burzum or DiJ shirts if you want to walk around with a Totenkopf on yr chest, just go to Wal-Mart.

good old Wal-Mart

Yeah but I'm sure that's just post addiction graphic design, gone cluelessly awry

Affliction

fretting over how cool your metal music is represents, more than any sun(((o album, the pernicious influence of the hipster (and his associated aesthetic cliches)

whatever, man, your lame metallica patch on that jacket sucks, why don't you listen to real metal like megadeth!

DJP, not that this should in any way redeem him in your eyes, but I thought you should know that he does have a song in his catalog called "The Crying Orc."

just to clarify, did someone up thread basically go for the idea that wearing a burzum shirt is equivalent to wearing a skr3wdr1v3r shirt? because thats bullshit

skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist

Burzum t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist

Not particularly interested in whether one is "worse" than the other, more in whether someone from a minority group who sees you in the shirt is going to feel uncomfortable with it.

let me fix that for you

skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think know you're a racist

I can't lie; I would probably wear a shirt with this thread title on it

xp, So all we're really arguing about is the degree of certainty, not that you're going to be running a significant risk of making people from groups that have traditionally been the victims of racism think you might be a neo-Nazi?

I would think that neo-Nazis who just wanted to vibe out on some good haterock would not necessarily flock to Burzum just because he's a racist, since his lyrics are about forests and stuff.

They did when I was into metal ... the official Burzum mailing list was full of that crap, and white power dudes would message me on IRC about their groups when I'd talk about the band. Then it was hard to be into Burzum without encountering the neo-Nazi side of it. Could be different now, I have no idea. I was primarily into the forests and vibes of the music, but got out pretty quickly when I saw that part of it.