People do things all the time that they don't understand because it's cool on the surface.
yeah but once you're older than 16 surely you see that this is a really stupid thing to do
― lex pretend, Thursday, 16 August 2012 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
Agreed. I wore Burzum and Death in June t-shirts in high school, and it struck me that it may not be a cool thing to do ... I imagined if a Jewish friend or something happened to know the death's head symbol or knew what Burzum was about would see it and feel weird, and bottom line didn't like the idea of fronting for the ideas those things represented. Made me feel pretty guilty so never wore them again.
― Spectrum, Thursday, 16 August 2012 15:57 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not a Burzum fan but yeah one of the very best things about being a metal classical and film score geek is not needing to stress about what's corny
OTM
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 16 August 2012 15:58 (twelve years ago) link
You don't need to support Burzum or DiJ shirts if you want to walk around with a Totenkopf on yr chest, just go to Wal-Mart.
― Siegbran, Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
good old Wal-Mart
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah but I'm sure that's just post addiction graphic design, gone cluelessly awry
― Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:28 (twelve years ago) link
Affliction
fretting over how cool your metal music is represents, more than any sun(((o album, the pernicious influence of the hipster (and his associated aesthetic cliches)
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:32 (twelve years ago) link
whatever, man, your lame metallica patch on that jacket sucks, why don't you listen to real metal like megadeth!
― your native bacon (mh), Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
DJP, not that this should in any way redeem him in your eyes, but I thought you should know that he does have a song in his catalog called "The Crying Orc."
― Clarke B., Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:50 (twelve years ago) link
just to clarify, did someone up thread basically go for the idea that wearing a burzum shirt is equivalent to wearing a skr3wdr1v3r shirt? because thats bullshit
― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 16 August 2012 16:55 (twelve years ago) link
skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist
Burzum t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist
Not particularly interested in whether one is "worse" than the other, more in whether someone from a minority group who sees you in the shirt is going to feel uncomfortable with it.
― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:04 (twelve years ago) link
let me fix that for you
skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think know you're a racist
― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:17 (twelve years ago) link
I can't lie; I would probably wear a shirt with this thread title on it
― Clarke B., Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:18 (twelve years ago) link
xp, So all we're really arguing about is the degree of certainty, not that you're going to be running a significant risk of making people from groups that have traditionally been the victims of racism think you might be a neo-Nazi?
― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:21 (twelve years ago) link
I would think that neo-Nazis who just wanted to vibe out on some good haterock would not necessarily flock to Burzum just because he's a racist, since his lyrics are about forests and stuff.
― Clarke B., Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:29 (twelve years ago) link
They did when I was into metal ... the official Burzum mailing list was full of that crap, and white power dudes would message me on IRC about their groups when I'd talk about the band. Then it was hard to be into Burzum without encountering the neo-Nazi side of it. Could be different now, I have no idea. I was primarily into the forests and vibes of the music, but got out pretty quickly when I saw that part of it.
― Spectrum, Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:33 (twelve years ago) link
Ick... Yeah, I think I'll stick to the nosebleed seats of somewhat ethically tortured Burzum fandom.
― Clarke B., Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
― Clarke B., Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:18 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark
it would have an arrow pointing straight down, right?
― some dude, Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
lol @ "neo-Nazis who just wanted to vibe out on some good haterock"
― some dude, Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:45 (twelve years ago) link
xp, So all we're really arguing about is the degree of certainty, not that you're going to be running a significant risk of making people from groups that have traditionally been the victims of racism think you might be a neo-Nazi?― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:21 PM (37 minutes ago)
― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:21 PM (37 minutes ago)
nah what i am saying is that one is a just a str8 up obvious racist band with indisputable racist lyrics, and the other is a dude making non-race related music that we know is a murdering racist asshole. theres a valid distinction there - if i see a dude with a swastika shirt, i know whats going on with him for sure, but if he is wearing a custom #88 sports jersey i dont.
― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
― some dude, Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:44 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That would be the only shirt in existence to pull off the elusive neo-Nazi-undertone / dick-joke combo
― Clarke B., Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
that sounds like a wager to me
― it's-a me, irl (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
xxp, to me, and to a lot of other people, they're both str8 up racist bands. Far more people are aware of the racism than the music if they're familiar with the Burzum name at all. There's certainly a strong possibility that the wearer isn't racist but there's also a fairly legitimate implication that they might be. If i get on a night bus and the only two free seats are next to a guy in a Burzum shirt and a guy in a shirt that has 88 on the back, i'm probably going to choose the one that could be a completely unintentional association.
Wearing a Burzum shirt sends a message out. That message isn't necessarily going to be interpreted in the way the wearer intends. I can't see why anyone would even want to take the risk of making people who aren't white self-conscious or uncomfortable in their presence simply to rep a band they like.
― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
tedious nitpicking but why does racism only make non-white ppl uncomfortable?
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:19 (twelve years ago) link
a guy in a shirt that has 88 on the back,
woah, what is this a reference to?
― if i had a goat's cheese tostada i might cream myself a little (stevie), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
With 113 caps and a World Cup winners medals to his name there is no doubt that Buffon is one of the finest goalkeepers of all time. However controversy has followed Buffon since his early days at Parma, where he chose the squad number 88. “H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet and the number 88 is used by neo-Nazi groups worldwide to signify “HH”, or Heil Hitler. [...] As he protested in his autobiography, he chose the number 88 because it contained 4 balls. [...] “We all know what having balls means in Italy,” Buffon declared in his defence
almost! gah, xps!
― (500) Days of Sodom (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
xp It wouldn't necessarily but "visible minorities" are obviously going to be more of a target for any potential unpleasantness and potentially more sensitive to symbols like that.
― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
http://images.kitbag.com/celtic-82632.jpg?width=350&height=400&quality=95
― Algerian Goalkeeper, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
ah tq merdeyeux
― if i had a goat's cheese tostada i might cream myself a little (stevie), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
idk man, you can't un-know what you know. the distinction is sort of without-difference. it's not even about authorial intent -- no doubt varg would disagree that what he does is "non-race related music", but that's irrelevant.
we all know that his "about forests and stuff" music is some viking lebensraum type stuff. music about killing other people vs. music about the purity of the old lands or w/e, this is just a matter of vulgarity, but it's the same stuff all around.
it's not even code or hidden or anything, i mean, that blood-and-soil stuff is more classically fascist than killing a bandmate over a beef. (i say this being p unfamiliar with any of this music)
― goole, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:24 (twelve years ago) link
hey jjj, apropos of this thread if we happen to go out for awesome boozes at Moscow on the Hill when I'm home, plz don't wear a Burzum shirt
thx in advance
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:26 (twelve years ago) link
haha i dont own a burzum shirt, so i dont have an actual horse in this race
― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
aw
lol actually maybe I should get one, and then silkscreen "Makes you think, huh?" on the back and wear it around town
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
“H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet and the number 88 is used by neo-Nazi groups worldwide to signify “HH”, or Heil Hitler.
Uh oh, half the pho resturants in America are racist.
― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:28 (twelve years ago) link
well look at that, sometimes your own colloquialism can turn on you xxpost to myself
― O_o-O_O-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
VARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
― the late great, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
you know i've never understood those numbers on vietnamese places
― goole, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:30 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.theinevitablenose.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/varg.jpg
fear the pecs
fear the moobs more like
― if i had a goat's cheese tostada i might cream myself a little (stevie), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:32 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.nocleansinging.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Varg-2012-promo-2-e1333238263659.jpg
I'm looking for
Girls who like guysAges 30-40Near meWho are singleFor new friends, long-term dating, casual sex
― the late great, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
88 is a lucky number in Chinese (and, by proxy, Vietnamese) because it resembles the characters for "double happiness"
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:37 (twelve years ago) link
ah ok, i figured it was a date
what about 79?
https://www.google.com/search?q=pho+79
― goole, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:39 (twelve years ago) link
7+9 = 16
16/2 = 8
two eights = 88
DO YOU SEE
― the late great, Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:42 (twelve years ago) link
my best guess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
dude i str8 up looked up '1979' and it's relation to vietnam, on my phone, at Pho 79, just cuz i was so confused
also:
this is something i've been thinking about, at least in the sense that i'm pretty sure i first heard burzum-as-music just slightly before i knew about burzum-as-horrible-person. basically what about a (maybe strawman) teenager that is given a burzum CD by a creepy buddy (NO DOUBT IN A BLACK DUSTER, SAYIN), and who digs it, supposed to do when he finds out about vag's dumb beliefs? be all "oh well guess i can't listen to that anymore," or what? like i said: probably a strawman here, since said teenager could just listen to other stuff that's like and maybe better than burzum but lacking the baggage, but still
― catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 16 August 2012 19:54 (twelve years ago) link
the only people who have the luxury of entertaining this situation as a conundrum are those who aren't in groups targeted by racists
the chain of thought that goes "oh I like this"/"the person who created it is a massive racist"/"he probably would hate this person I know"/"cool tunes though" is very distinct from "oh I like this"/"the person who created it is a massive racist"/"he hates me"/"shame about the cool tunes, not giving time and money to someone who hates me"
― Lil Swayne of Pie (DJP), Thursday, 16 August 2012 20:03 (twelve years ago) link
yeah :-/
― catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 16 August 2012 20:07 (twelve years ago) link
There's got to be a way of differentiating between "I am a person who is offended by that Burzum t-shirt b/c I know enough about Varg Vikernes to know better" kind of offended and a "my parents were in a gulag why the fuck are you wearing that CCCP shirt you asshole" / "I was beaten by police in Cuba, please don't come to my party wearing a Che shirt" kind of offended.
― Ówen P., Thursday, 16 August 2012 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
degree and kind of offense depends more on the nature of the offendee than the nature of the offense, though. think it's specious to pretend that there's no relation between varg's philosophies and real-world hate crimes, or that there's no relation between his philosophies and his music. it's all related.
― contenderizer, Thursday, 16 August 2012 20:40 (twelve years ago) link