Bolt the door, Varg is loose!

just to clarify, did someone up thread basically go for the idea that wearing a burzum shirt is equivalent to wearing a skr3wdr1v3r shirt? because thats bullshit

skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist

Burzum t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think you're a racist

Not particularly interested in whether one is "worse" than the other, more in whether someone from a minority group who sees you in the shirt is going to feel uncomfortable with it.

let me fix that for you

skr3wdr1v3r t-shirt = fair chance that people who are familiar with the band are going to think know you're a racist

I can't lie; I would probably wear a shirt with this thread title on it

xp, So all we're really arguing about is the degree of certainty, not that you're going to be running a significant risk of making people from groups that have traditionally been the victims of racism think you might be a neo-Nazi?

I would think that neo-Nazis who just wanted to vibe out on some good haterock would not necessarily flock to Burzum just because he's a racist, since his lyrics are about forests and stuff.

They did when I was into metal ... the official Burzum mailing list was full of that crap, and white power dudes would message me on IRC about their groups when I'd talk about the band. Then it was hard to be into Burzum without encountering the neo-Nazi side of it. Could be different now, I have no idea. I was primarily into the forests and vibes of the music, but got out pretty quickly when I saw that part of it.

Ick... Yeah, I think I'll stick to the nosebleed seats of somewhat ethically tortured Burzum fandom.

I can't lie; I would probably wear a shirt with this thread title on it

― Clarke B., Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:18 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark

it would have an arrow pointing straight down, right?

lol @ "neo-Nazis who just wanted to vibe out on some good haterock"

xp, So all we're really arguing about is the degree of certainty, not that you're going to be running a significant risk of making people from groups that have traditionally been the victims of racism think you might be a neo-Nazi?

― Temporarily Famous In The Czech Republic (ShariVari), Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:21 PM (37 minutes ago)

nah what i am saying is that one is a just a str8 up obvious racist band with indisputable racist lyrics, and the other is a dude making non-race related music that we know is a murdering racist asshole. theres a valid distinction there - if i see a dude with a swastika shirt, i know whats going on with him for sure, but if he is wearing a custom #88 sports jersey i dont.

it would have an arrow pointing straight down, right?

― some dude, Thursday, August 16, 2012 1:44 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That would be the only shirt in existence to pull off the elusive neo-Nazi-undertone / dick-joke combo

that sounds like a wager to me

xxp, to me, and to a lot of other people, they're both str8 up racist bands. Far more people are aware of the racism than the music if they're familiar with the Burzum name at all. There's certainly a strong possibility that the wearer isn't racist but there's also a fairly legitimate implication that they might be. If i get on a night bus and the only two free seats are next to a guy in a Burzum shirt and a guy in a shirt that has 88 on the back, i'm probably going to choose the one that could be a completely unintentional association.

Wearing a Burzum shirt sends a message out. That message isn't necessarily going to be interpreted in the way the wearer intends. I can't see why anyone would even want to take the risk of making people who aren't white self-conscious or uncomfortable in their presence simply to rep a band they like.

tedious nitpicking but why does racism only make non-white ppl uncomfortable?

a guy in a shirt that has 88 on the back,

woah, what is this a reference to?

With 113 caps and a World Cup winners medals to his name there is no doubt that Buffon is one of the finest goalkeepers of all time. However controversy has followed Buffon since his early days at Parma, where he chose the squad number 88. “H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet and the number 88 is used by neo-Nazi groups worldwide to signify “HH”, or Heil Hitler. [...] As he protested in his autobiography, he chose the number 88 because it contained 4 balls. [...] “We all know what having balls means in Italy,” Buffon declared in his defence

almost! gah, xps!

xp It wouldn't necessarily but "visible minorities" are obviously going to be more of a target for any potential unpleasantness and potentially more sensitive to symbols like that.

http://images.kitbag.com/celtic-82632.jpg?width=350&height=400&quality=95

ah tq merdeyeux

idk man, you can't un-know what you know. the distinction is sort of without-difference. it's not even about authorial intent -- no doubt varg would disagree that what he does is "non-race related music", but that's irrelevant.

we all know that his "about forests and stuff" music is some viking lebensraum type stuff. music about killing other people vs. music about the purity of the old lands or w/e, this is just a matter of vulgarity, but it's the same stuff all around.

it's not even code or hidden or anything, i mean, that blood-and-soil stuff is more classically fascist than killing a bandmate over a beef. (i say this being p unfamiliar with any of this music)

hey jjj, apropos of this thread if we happen to go out for awesome boozes at Moscow on the Hill when I'm home, plz don't wear a Burzum shirt

thx in advance

haha i dont own a burzum shirt, so i dont have an actual horse in this race

aw

lol actually maybe I should get one, and then silkscreen "Makes you think, huh?" on the back and wear it around town

“H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet and the number 88 is used by neo-Nazi groups worldwide to signify “HH”, or Heil Hitler.

Uh oh, half the pho resturants in America are racist.

well look at that, sometimes your own colloquialism can turn on you xxpost to myself

VARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH

you know i've never understood those numbers on vietnamese places

http://www.theinevitablenose.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/varg.jpg

fear the pecs

fear the moobs more like

http://www.nocleansinging.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Varg-2012-promo-2-e1333238263659.jpg

I'm looking for

Girls who like guys
Ages 30-40
Near me
Who are single
For new friends, long-term dating, casual sex

you know i've never understood those numbers on vietnamese places

88 is a lucky number in Chinese (and, by proxy, Vietnamese) because it resembles the characters for "double happiness"

ah ok, i figured it was a date

what about 79?

https://www.google.com/search?q=pho+79

7+9 = 16

16/2 = 8

two eights = 88

DO YOU SEE

what about 79?

my best guess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

dude i str8 up looked up '1979' and it's relation to vietnam, on my phone, at Pho 79, just cuz i was so confused

also:

idk man, you can't un-know what you know. the distinction is sort of without-difference. it's not even about authorial intent -- no doubt varg would disagree that what he does is "non-race related music", but that's irrelevant.

this is something i've been thinking about, at least in the sense that i'm pretty sure i first heard burzum-as-music just slightly before i knew about burzum-as-horrible-person. basically what about a (maybe strawman) teenager that is given a burzum CD by a creepy buddy (NO DOUBT IN A BLACK DUSTER, SAYIN), and who digs it, supposed to do when he finds out about vag's dumb beliefs? be all "oh well guess i can't listen to that anymore," or what? like i said: probably a strawman here, since said teenager could just listen to other stuff that's like and maybe better than burzum but lacking the baggage, but still

the only people who have the luxury of entertaining this situation as a conundrum are those who aren't in groups targeted by racists

the chain of thought that goes "oh I like this"/"the person who created it is a massive racist"/"he probably would hate this person I know"/"cool tunes though" is very distinct from "oh I like this"/"the person who created it is a massive racist"/"he hates me"/"shame about the cool tunes, not giving time and money to someone who hates me"

yeah :-/

There's got to be a way of differentiating between "I am a person who is offended by that Burzum t-shirt b/c I know enough about Varg Vikernes to know better" kind of offended and a "my parents were in a gulag why the fuck are you wearing that CCCP shirt you asshole" / "I was beaten by police in Cuba, please don't come to my party wearing a Che shirt" kind of offended.

degree and kind of offense depends more on the nature of the offendee than the nature of the offense, though. think it's specious to pretend that there's no relation between varg's philosophies and real-world hate crimes, or that there's no relation between his philosophies and his music. it's all related.

difference in kind. symbols of political violence v. hatred of a person for their religion, skin color, etc. political violence ends when the regime ends. racism and antisemitism will live on as long the ideas are alive, so it's the idea that's the problem as opposed to a memory of a dead regime.

"I was beaten by police in Cuba, please don't come to my party wearing a Che shirt"

what are you some, some kind of fascist batista thug?

i'll beat you down againb right now!!!

srsly though i am equally offended when i see people at ike turner shows

srsly though i am equally offended when i see people at ike turner shows

― the late great, Thursday, August 16, 2012 3:48 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ike turner shows in the last five years have been pretty weird

just to make clear what you're tacitly endorsing in finding kind things to say about varg's music - from april of this year:

http://www.burzum.org/eng/library/war_in_europe02.shtml

This is a reaction to Grethe Bøe-Waal, who the 21st of April 2012 wrote an article for Aftenposten (a "Norwegian" newspaper) titled "The Price of Racism". She talks about her adoptee friend of Asian descent who according to her was driven to suicide by the racism he was exposed to in Norway. She talks about how the racists are responsible for the consequences of their words.

As a Norwegian I react strongly to what she has to say, and would like that she and others like her had a better understanding of reality. Racists are not the problem when Norwegians adopt or in other manners import individuals of other races to our country. The problem is the "anti-racists'" lack of respect for and comprehension of the fact that we actually have a diversity on this planet not only in respect to different animal races and species but also in respect to different human races and even different human species (see www.atala.fr for proof of that)! If you take a look at nature you will see that the various animal races and species do not mix naturally; only animals who have had their insincts broken down by breeding and domestication and in a few rare cases also wild animals who have no alternatives (like animals in captivity) mix with other races or species. If you for example take a dog and place it amongst wolves the wolves will kill it immediately. That's how nature works, whether we like it or not. "Anti-racists" for sure don't like it, for various reasons, but it is wrong to attack racists only because they are exactly how nature intended them to be.

Try to corner an animal and you will see what will happen! Be not surprised when the animal attacks you. Humans are also animals, and people like Anders Breivik act on instinct because you have cornered them. You can actually thank yourselves for the fact that he killed some of you "anti-racists". You have cornered our entire European race! Like Breivik says more and more individuals in the European nations will react with aggression. Finally large groups will revolt. Perhaps even entire peoples. The future does not look bright. The carnage will come – and it is all your fault! This is a consequence of your "anti-racist" policies and your actions! You and those who "educated" you are responsible for this.

he's explicitly justifying racism as "natural", condemning anti-racism as misguided, condemning "race-mixing", and blaming anti-racists for the "natural" violence that results from immigration and interracial relations of any sort. he's also passively endorsing all-out race war.

I think this is where the conversation goes to "that's not in the music though," usually

i think goole's point that white power dipshits always love bullshit thinly disguised racial allegories in the form of half-ass tolkien and norse god warmongering shit stands

otm. the music is the soundtrack. the music articulates the grand "philosophical" and "spiritual" themes that the frankly genocidal racism hides behind. purity, old ways, man in his natural state, the warrior's nobility, etc. facist-romantic horseshit. the music provides artistic legitimacy to the project and gives varg a way to attract others to his underlying ideas.

the guy celebrates anders fucking brevik as a revolutionary hero and explicitly encourages others to follow his lead. he'd be hitler if he had a big enough audience, and it's not like he isn't trying to recruit, "inspire" and lead.

steven fucking tyler OTM