There's a serious point in the piece: if Dylan is the great popular artist of the last 50 years, should his art not be accessible to even those not steeped in"Dylanology"? I like classic rock. I have plenty of Bob Dylan records. I don't enjoy the records he makes now. Why does that make me the failure, rather than him?
― Manfred Mann meets Man Parrish (ithappens), Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:43 (eleven years ago) link
how about neither of you?
― j., Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:44 (eleven years ago) link
we are all failures, let's be really real
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:45 (eleven years ago) link
We're all motherfuckers who can rot in hell.
― And Romney doesn't know what day it is... (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
I'll get me coat.
― Irwin Dante's Towering Inferno (WmC), Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:47 (eleven years ago) link
i know it's hard to ignore the slavish praise that the dude gets all the time now, but hey if it's not your thing, you probably shouldn't feel bad about it. funny thing about dylan being "the great popular artist of the last 50 years" is that he really isn't that popular, at least relative to other "popular" artists. he's got a certain cultural cache, but he's more like the ultimate cult artist.
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:50 (eleven years ago) link
Words are fit rigidly to the metre
lol lex I love you but you have literally no idea what meter is if you think this about Dylan. I'll be happy to show you metrical substitutions in, hazarding a guess here, every song he's ever written.
― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:51 (eleven years ago) link
funny thing about dylan being "the great popular artist of the last 50 years" is that he really isn't that popular, at least relative to other "popular" artists
yeah this is something i mentioned - since 2001, when i first tried him out, he has literally cropped up in my everyday life (which is v music-oriented obv) two or three times max. literally two people in my social circles give a shit about him, i think. it's not like he's fucking radiohead or something
― lex pretend, Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:53 (eleven years ago) link
xp i intend to listen to no further b-dyl songs in my life i have sacrificed enough years on this
― lex pretend, Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
but what about When Bob Dylan dies
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 14:56 (eleven years ago) link
Lex I think writing about things you love brings out way better qualities of your writing, for me at least.....also it's pretty hard to believe you came to this album and writing this piece with anything other than a takedown in mind before your heard a note
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:00 (eleven years ago) link
Also it's not like this album is being met without criticism in the dylan fan camp
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:02 (eleven years ago) link
I’m a huge Dylan fan — and I like the album, although it doesn’t compare to Love and Theft or Modern Times — but I have no problem with Lex’s review. Most critics are far too reverential when it comes to reviewing Dylan (the 5-star RS review was as ridiculous as it was predictable).
― Jazzbo, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
What exactly do you think the Guardian were expecting when they commissioned him?
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:03 (eleven years ago) link
SOMETHING IS HAPPENING HERE, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, DO YOU, MISTER MACPHERSON?
― mike t-diva, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:04 (eleven years ago) link
― Matt DC, Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:03 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Of course! That's why the whole thing is so boring
At least the npr interns thing had the charm of young kids that genuinely seemed to engage
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
all the guardian has got left is trolling its ageing beardie readers, basically
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
The way the question is framed is kind of interesting, I think.
I mean the Lex likes Leonard Cohen so it's not as if he's entirely opposed to engaging with literate old folky dudes who can't really sing.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
Still, lyrics have always been key to my love of music – the deftly drawn character sketch, the well-chosen phrase that turns a song's narrative inside out, the intoxicating love of language, all excavating emotionally resonant insights out of words and melody
The thing is lex, Dylan used to be able to do all those things. He can't any more, admittedly, but there are plenty of examples of that kind of thing in his back catalogue
― my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:08 (eleven years ago) link
Haha and Tom Waits for that matter.
i dunno, i don't mind the "guy who doesn't care about bob dylan, what do you think about the new bob dylan album" approach, but this seems more like "guy who does not care about the last 80+ years of American music, what do you think about this album that is steeped in that music". (maybe i'm wrong, maybe lex is a huge carter family fan)
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
and that one (1) nick cave album
― lex pretend, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:10 (eleven years ago) link
guy who does not care about the last 80+ years of American music
but i love nicki minaj
Today I learned that dylan isn't a very good singer and sometimes critically overpraised....man hard lessons....gotta pick up the pieces and start all over....*throws coat over shoulder, walks away down dirt road*
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:14 (eleven years ago) link
Well, Nicki Minaj doesn't seem to care about 400+ years of American slavery so it all fits.
Lex, with all due respect, is about the last person on the planet I'd turn to for an informed commentary on Bob Dylan.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:15 (eleven years ago) link
or indeed on any planet
Tyler, lex likes a lot of the early old school hip hop singles too, like ”the rain” by missy elliot
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:16 (eleven years ago) link
what a completely worthless article!!!!
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
It is really amusing watching people attempt eyerolling boredom when they're clearly really annoyed.
Dude in the comments box has ruined the thread by claiming Dylan used to be the vocal equivalent of Marvin Gaye and Dusty Springfield, a challop so big that even the Dylan fans are pointing and laughing.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:19 (eleven years ago) link
xxp yeah haha, i meant to write american folk/blues/country/rock n roll/r&b/jazz etc. whatevs! i think it's ok for some people to not like bob dylan. even if it makes you a bad person deep down.
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
I am absolutely sure that lex meant to set the matter definitively to rest.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:21 (eleven years ago) link
I mean I think he was (was) a great vocalist in his way, not remotely a great singer
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
But he works with what he's got pretty well still
I cannot listen to cohen anymore
With waits, it's like if you sing in a fake voice for so long it becomes your real voice
― listen to that wu-tang whistle blowin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
Dylan's focus on set design and costumes at the expense of his principals' internal motivations and emotions leaves me cold
lex, how don't set designs and costumes reveal motivations and emotions?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
"Dude in the comments box" double-ruined thread by dissing Celine Dion.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:28 (eleven years ago) link
i intend to listen to no further b-dyl songs in my life i have sacrificed enough years on this
that's fine, but you shouldn't say things that are demonstrably not true just because they flesh out the number of un-nice things you want to say. your remark about meter is an "either this is true or untrue" one; it's untrue, not a matter of opinion.
― we don't wanna miss a THING!!! (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:32 (eleven years ago) link
I can't remember where, but there's a thread on ILX where someone drops the truth bomb that hardcore stans of people with 'difficult' voices (Cohen / Waits / Dylan / Reed / Murdoch) will always go "no you don't understand, the voice is the best part!"
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:33 (eleven years ago) link
Hefty dose of "lady, if you have to ask" as well.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
Damn. I'm traveling now and this is the thread that will get 600 updates in two hours :(
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
who's murdoch? the dude from belle and sebastian?
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
you tell me! in film, they are not things i've ever paid much attention to
― lex pretend, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
great metaphor, bro
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
xpost i see how that's a fun observation but do you think stans lie when they say that the voice is the best part?
how do you love cohen/waits/dylan/reed/young without loving the voices?
― niels, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
I can accept that a lot of people do love the voices (I like early Dylan and late Cohen vocals a lot) but a) they're clearly not for everyone and b) most of those stans wouldn't care that much in the first place were it not for the quality of the songwriting.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
hmmm...I dunno. Usually with Dylan it's (a) voice (b) musicians. For me.
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:44 (eleven years ago) link
Haha Young = I only really love the Dead Man soundtrack.
I think that 'lie' is completely the wrong way to look at it - they may are probably 100% right that it's what they prefer, but convincing someone that they have to get further than 'tolerate the voice' to start getting into the rest of the package is not generally helpful.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
I really revel in Dylan's set designs and costumes whenever he's on stage. I understand a production of Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid On Ice is currently in preparation.
― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
I don't give a damn if somebody's a skeptic tbh. Right now it's the aging hippies and lit majors who piss me off more than the skeptics (e.g. Christopher Ricks and his damn Eliot analogies).
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
a) they're clearly not for everyoneare there any vocals that are "for everyone"?
― tylerw, Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
Al Green?
― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 September 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link