― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 6 November 2005 04:52 (eighteen years ago) link
Banana Nutrament (straightup@gmail.com), November 6th, 2005.
That's not what I said, Banana.
― curmudgeon (Steve K), Sunday, 6 November 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― Stuck to a Seat in the New Beverly (Bent Over at the Arclight), Sunday, 6 November 2005 17:58 (eighteen years ago) link
Wait, is that true?! I've never been the clubbing type (I don't think I've been to a dance club in the last 11 of my 29 years), so forgive me if I seem like a complete naif for being shocked at this. But I am. Men pull their dicks out on the dancefloor? Routinely?
I've been missing out! (kidding). That's fucking awful.
― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 6 November 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
Also yes, there is something so gigantically stupid and bizarre about saying the hipsters at Williamsburg parties are going to become "captains of industry." They're in their late twenties -- if they were ever going to do something beyond live in crappy lofts and play in bands, chances are they'd have gotten started on it by now. The bulk of them will get office jobs like everyone else, and the rest will wind up making cabinets or repairing amplifiers or running record stores or becoming publicisists.
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 20:12 (eighteen years ago) link
shh nabisco you'll get in the way of the incipient class rage, how we gonna have a revolution without the class rage
― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Sunday, 6 November 2005 21:20 (eighteen years ago) link
E.g. I don't think it's coincidence that constant anti-hipster sneering (usually Williamsburg-related) coincided with the explosion of internet culture-talk: suddenly you can have bloggers with no significant experience of a particular hipster spot or place or scene who can look at the pictures and read about it in record reviews and develop some bizarro fantasy of a whole neighborhood of trust-fund racists with Flock of Seagulls haircuts doing coke all night and feeling superior to everyone. All shit that might, in some extreme instances, kinda vaguely trend toward certain realities, but it's still totally bizarre. Weirdest of all: the way "Williamsburg" become shorthand for NYC hipsters has created this class of people elsewhere who actually think it's a full-neighborhood hipster-trash party, despite the reality that Williamsburg looks and feels not that incredibly different from any "hip" younger neighborhood, anywhere, from San Francisco to Chicago to Philadelphia. That "captains of industry" line in particular is just kinda like ... well, this person's understanding of what he/she is talking about is massively divorced from reality.
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:45 (eighteen years ago) link
How dare you say that about Costa Mesa.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link
I knew I'd be on the cutting edge of hip one day.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 6 November 2005 22:59 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― whatever, Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― eBay Item number: 7358717916 (mookie wilson), Sunday, 6 November 2005 23:43 (eighteen years ago) link
(And umm eBay, I'm not sure whether that's just a joke or whether you think you're making some kind of point; what I'm pointing out is that CocoRosie-as-band is actually about 50% black, and that they seem to think of their music as existing partly within a modern black-music idiom, and that their relationship with the notion of black culture is visibly way more complicated than any of these "I noticed her quoted in WaPo" articles bother examining.)
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― gear (gear), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:28 (eighteen years ago) link
I mean, God, I can't fathom how young white people seem to think they're doing anyone any favors by saying they're so "awkard and square" but black people are cool -- all they're doing is switching the same old racist assumptions into some jacked-up compliment. (As if that hasn't been done before: "Black people have rhythm! And soul! Maybe they can come in through the back entrance and tap-dance for us!") All they're doing is reducing the whole notion of blackness to some rap-video caricature, one that still slots black people into a position of powerlessness (Ludacris can be "cool," but are you gonna elect him governor?) -- and, even worse, marginalizes and ignores millions and millions of everday "uncool" non-stereotype-fitting black people.
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:34 (eighteen years ago) link
but also guys, it's "kill whitIE" --
― Nick Sylvester, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 00:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 7 November 2005 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Monday, 7 November 2005 01:05 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes indeed.
― moley (moley), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― whatever, Monday, 7 November 2005 02:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:46 (eighteen years ago) link
as someone who likes cocorosie's music (am i the only one on this thread?) i enjoy the fact that they engage race at all. my reading of them is that they are not racist, and that most/all of the racial content in their music comes from fascinations with certain eras/ideas (of [re]appropriation). i feel that there is no harm in that, and that there's actually a fair amount of good in it, being that it has managed to provoke this kind of dialog. whether or not she goes to these kill whitey parties is kind of a moot point. every couple of years i might want to hear zztop at a bar or something, does that mean in order to be socially conscious that i should go to a biker bar and hear it in its native clime? or is it ok for me to go down to the hipster bar's cock rock night? i don't think there's anything wrong with feeling more comfortable among one's own peer group. i'm not advocating some kind of policy for social segregation/insularity, but i don't want to go to a biker bar. y'know?
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 7 November 2005 02:47 (eighteen years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:21 (eighteen years ago) link
(Ludacris can be "cool," but are you gonna elect him governor?)
well, he hates bill o'reilly -- that's a pretty good start!
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 7 November 2005 03:33 (eighteen years ago) link
AND HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS
― DEUTSCHBAG, Monday, 7 November 2005 06:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 7 November 2005 08:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― Soukesian, Monday, 7 November 2005 08:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― sonore (sonore), Monday, 7 November 2005 08:34 (eighteen years ago) link
I am absolutely the last person that would ever argue that we live in a race-less, culture-less world; I've spent ages on other threads arguing exactly the opposite. But it's ridiculous and annoying for anyone to perceive black culture as being primarily about booty-bass, fried chicken, spilled 40s, and whatever else our culture gets from a steady diet of mostly engaging with blackness in the form of rap videos (and not, say, gospel videos). And for the record, apart from just-funny-on-their-own guys like Chapelle or Eugene Levy, I'm not a big fan of "white guy drives like this, black guy drives like this" humor, no matter who it's coming from; mostly it's just tacky and banal, but it also has some of these much-deeper problems up inside it.
And I don't get your last point: you seem to be implying that these people love hip-hop but are just embarrassed to admit it? Why the hell would that be anything other than kinda-stupid? (And for the record, while I'm sure the people at KW parties like hip-hop as much as anyone else, the point of these things isn't exactly earnest appreciation of the music -- it's about a racial-caricature dress-up, which I'm sure is innocently fun in a Halloweeny kinda way, but problematic nevertheless.)
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 08:49 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 08:57 (eighteen years ago) link
i think it's interesting that a lot of the people who are attracted to the KW parties are gonna have arts degrees and read Fanon while listening to the Shins or whatever... and that they don't realise the problems the discourse of race that they are engaging with. no matter how "ironically" it's treated, these are real distortions - and you'd think they'd pick up on it.
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Monday, 7 November 2005 09:24 (eighteen years ago) link
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 09:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― whatever, Monday, 7 November 2005 10:08 (eighteen years ago) link
What's funny to me, "whatever," is that the paranoia and neurosis being dealt with here comes largely from the white side of the issue: it's not as if black people, by and large, are gonna have some massive problem with a white person who sincerely tries to get involved in this music! It seems more like white people are just scared over the idea of having to enter a black context, and to have their whiteness suddenly be an issue -- to have it suddenly make them stand out, to be "out of place" in the game of racial expectations, and for there to be the chance that they'll be negatively singled out for it. But hey, congratulations, white people: welcome to being black in America!
Yeah, welcome to being "the black guy" at your office, or a black student at an Ivy League college. And this, right here, is the nasty undercurrent kinda tainting the flipside of what you're saying up above. If these problems of "appropriation" attach to everything, and not just hip-hop, isn't the implication that it's wrong and strange for a black woman to learn classical cello? Isn't the implication that Condoleezza Rice is play-acting a "whiteness" she doesn't belong in? Isn't the implication that white people "belong" in the dominant culture, and black people "belong" strictly in some booty-packed video, and not in the dominant culture around them? You're working on the assumption that the dominant culture of board room and governorships is common and open to everyone -- that there is no culture of whiteness -- and that the only issue is crossing into a culture of "blackness." But as soon as you construct this culture of "blackness," you're acknowledging something outside of it, and in the process doing something unfortunate -- unless you imagine a president who says "what up, g."
― nabiscothingy, Monday, 7 November 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― Caught Red Handed at Sam's Hofbrau (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 7 November 2005 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.watergate.com/image/liddy3.jpg
x-post
And oh what a pity the world's not whiteOh what a shame i don't have blue eyesGod must have been a color blindIf i made the world it would be all white...
Jesus loves meBut not my wifeNot my nigger friendsOr their nigger livesBut jesus loves meThat's for sure'Cause the bible tells me so ...
― 'Twan (miccio), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link
Ask Charley Pride.
>I mean I feel like a lot of hip-hop, certainly not all of it, but probably most of it deals with inner-city life. Can you really ever claim to appreciate it on the same level of people living in the inner-city if you grew up in the suburbs?
What about rappers from the suburbs like De La Soul, Public Enemy and Ice Cube?
― pdf (Phil Freeman), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― firstworldman (firstworldman), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link
nitsuh do you actually know anyone who listens to rap music?
― _, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― 'Twan (miccio), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link
(I was actually wanting to add on the way to work something kinda about that -- about how even among hip-hop's black audience, I'd venture that like less than 5% are actually living the lives described in some of the music, and less than 25% are even much brushing up on it. What's weird, though, is that the bulk of the hip-hop white people know is primarily about partying and women and making money, an experience that's in no way limited to blackness or the "inner city." White people get hot in here and take off all their clothes, too.)
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 7 November 2005 17:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― _, Monday, 7 November 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link
-- nabisco (--...), November 7th, 2005.
TMI dude
I might be and probably am wildly misinterpreting it but the lyrics to “My Lady Story” might hold the answer
― Murgatroid, Saturday, 16 September 2023 17:47 (eight months ago) link
she goes on to say in the same interview that she's bound her chest and fantasized about top surgery. I'm an apologist for their music, Ghosthorse & Stillborn was great afaic but that essentialist terfy stuff ain't it
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 16 September 2023 18:05 (eight months ago) link
While we should all agree that TERFy shit is bad, I think it’s a real bad look to immediately go “What does their trans/nb friend have to say about this” like all trans people have to constantly live their lives as public spokespeople and accountants for their dumbest friends
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:30 (eight months ago) link
Like ANONHI is living ANONHI’s life. They aren’t CocoRosie’s publicist or keeper
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:32 (eight months ago) link
While we should all agree that TERFy shit is bad, I think it’s a real bad look to immediately go “What does their trans/nb friend have to say about this” like all trans people have to constantly live their lives as public spokespeople and accountants for their dumbest friends― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten)
― kirsten gilla band (Whiney G. Weingarten)
mmmm not sure i personally agree with you but i'm also not interested in debating this
---
re: those TERFy paras:
i mean kudos to them for trying to put the "radical feminism" back in TERF ig. it's just... the stuff they're saying is so far removed from my lived experience as a trans person, with the lived experiences of the queer people i know. that's kind of the funny thing, they're suggesting transness as something that erases queer identities and i don't really think of myself primarily as "trans" right now. it's useful only to the extent that people won't fucking shut up about it. i'm trans, sure, but it's more important to me that i'm a dyke, that i'm a faggot, that's a bigger part of who i am, these days.
all of this bullshit about "radical self-acceptance". accept what? that their definition of "woman" is more important than my bodily autonomy? it's goddamn silly. you wind up sounding like the fucking catholics, all of this shit about "acceptance" is the same shit the "natural family planning" people say. i mean under what circumstances does this manifesto consider a hysterectomy _acceptable_?
― Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:38 (eight months ago) link
the only reason I brought it up is that they are all working together on a festival that included this: https://www.hollandfestival.nl/en/fututre-feminism which people pointed out seemed to point to TERF-friendly philosophy. So I thought it was odd that Anhoni would be spearheading it.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:39 (eight months ago) link
I had to google "kill whitey" parties. Another cultural phenomenon I'm happy to have missed.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 16 September 2023 19:49 (eight months ago) link
It’s always someone fascinating when people who were awful from the jump go out of their way to show how much more awfulness they have inside them to share with you
― the new drip king (DJP), Sunday, 17 September 2023 08:11 (eight months ago) link
omg how did I end up on this PR list
on wednesday 2.21, CocoRosie will announce their upcoming Elevator Angels EP (to be released 3.8) as a start of their 20th Anniversary celebrations. "Beautiful Boyz" HERE is their first track released wednesday 2.21.this Fall, the sister duo will also release a brand new studio album.CocoRosie - Elevator Angels EP: https://on.soundcloud.com/XZqFdembargoed press release, with photos, quote, artwork etc HEREwould you be into connecting?
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 9 February 2024 01:10 (three months ago) link
"dear CocoRosie, eat a brick of shit"
― never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Friday, 9 February 2024 01:37 (three months ago) link
they fucked up by not becoming mainstream country, they could have been ilx country thread darlings with their complex opinions and contradictions
― J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Friday, 9 February 2024 02:26 (three months ago) link
Hardy har
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Friday, 9 February 2024 02:27 (three months ago) link