Itunes, Billboard, and the marginalization of black music and black audiences in America

dude if you think you could troll the world by writing the next "Ho Hey" Top 40 folk pop blockbuster you should really go for it

TROLL BITCHES, GET MONEY

I'd be much more willing to give it a shot now than I would have been before there were baby clothes to buy but I'm long in the tooth. Gotta get me some Rob n Fab gone rustic stand-ins for my big-dollars Mumford heel turn

For real dogg if you sold that song abt the cubs to the right set of dickheads in hobo hats you could make bank

pull a semisonic

has "thrift shop" entered the r&b/hip-hop airplay chart? the billboard website seems to suggest not. it would be kind of funny/sad if it topped the overall chart w/o reaching the airplay chart at all

yeah, only airplay charts it's been on are rock, alternative and pop

it's funny because "Gangnam Style" is STILL at the top of the Rap Songs chart, but for some reason that was never allowed on the R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, where "Thrift Shop" is despite having pretty similar airplay demographics. the top 3 on Rap Songs is all stuff that has zero urban radio airplay (PSY/Macklemore/Flo Rida).

how do we know psy has no urban radio airplay? like what's the go-to reference on that?

for me it's just anecdata in two major cities (philly and nyc)

I have not heard him on DC urban radio (some dude listens more to DC and Baltimore radio than I do; he could give a more full response I bet)

I don't think I've even heard any of the DJs or radio personalities even mention him or the fad

maybe gangnam style will appear in a kanye verse on a remix 5 years from now, tho

the slowed-down olsen twins reference already feels 5 years old, i'd give him maybe two months

I don't think I've even heard any of the DJs or radio personalities even mention him or the fad

I mostly listen to urban radio these days, so I didn't know about the song until months after the masses (I had to YouTube it after reading that it was a defining song of 2012). That song is so far removed from rap radio interests that I'd be surprised if any rap station anywhere in the country ever played it even once.

the slowed-down olsen twins reference already feels 5 years old, i'd give him maybe two months

have you heard the diamonds remix?

Seattle's pop-ass Flo Rida-playing, Macklemore-playing rap station hasn't even touched Gangnam Style

#1 rap song in the country folx

I am sure Bill Werde at Billboard will continue to defend this (and sound annoyed in his tweets that anyone would ever question anything Billboard does)

yeah, that guy is the worst on twitter

how do we know psy has no urban radio airplay? like what's the go-to reference on that?

i don't know about the specific data in psy's case b/c i rarely look at radio numbers, but if you are wondering about that kinda thing, a lot of ppl look at mediabase data to get numbers for what certain formats are playing. for example here and here are some recent data on what mainstream/rhythmic radio and urban/urban adult contemporary radio are playing (and music video plays on tv, which are hilariously low)

yeah i wasn't saying no urban station has ever played "Gangnam Style" once. but it never got enough spins to chart on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay, so whatever play it got was negligible (relative to tons of spins on pop radio).

ok so macklemore is #1 now (w/ zero entries ever on the r&b/hip-hop airplay chart) and probably will be for the next 10+ weeks since that is the pace the pop charts are going now. at what point is an actual r&b/hip-hop radio hit going to top this chart? never?

Well yeah. That would be bad for business if that happened.

when Drake drops his lead single is prob the correct answer

only songs that were in the top 20 of both Pop Songs and Hip-Hop/R&B Airplay at any point in 2012: J. Cole's "Work Out," T-Pain's "5 O'Clock" and Rihanna's "Diamonds"

artists that were in the top 20 of both charts but never with the same song: Nicki Minaj, Rihanna, Usher, Chris Brown, Drake, Wiz Khalifa, Big Sean, Ne-Yo)

2 thoughts:

1. I don't understand the point of this thread, but I hate seeing the term "black music" used in place of "industry manufactured pop music"

2. I would not worry about the marginalization of black audiences. All of the black people I know (all over 30 years old) seem to have no problems finding all the music that they need, none of which seems to be Nicki Minaj, Rihanna, Kanye West, Lil Wayne, Drake, Rick Ross, Wiz Khalifa, 2 Chainz, Ne-Yo, or Chris Brown.

I apologize if I am way off the make. I respect the fact that so many here care about music and culture, and I tried to understand the point of the thread. There just seems to be some stereotyping going on here.

Regarding item 2, the point was/is that Billboard was not giving respect to widely popular black music. Your reference to people you know not having problems finding the music they need is not analogous.

what do you mean by "widely popular black music?"

a. widely popular music performed/produced by black artists
b. a style/genre called "black music" that is widely popular
c. music that is widely popular among black audiences

what are you trying to accomplish, nicky lo-fi?

learn something, maybe. why do you assume agenda?

just weird to see someone think that their sample of 'black people over the age of 30 who I personally know' is representative of black audiences of all ages all across America, is all.

sorry, I in no way meant to imply that anything is "representative" of anything. I only brought up age because maybe it's a youth culture thing, of which I'm pretty ignorant.

I was wondering how Billboard was marginalizing black audiences (from the title of the thread)

I don't know anyone, of any race, who is so influenced by Billboard charts as far as their taste is concerned.

maybe it is. I don't know. can you explain?

nicky lo-fi, are you a rockist?

nicky lo-fi, do you recognize that the songs that are popular on billboard at this very moment may, perhaps, could, maybe, influence the songs that are produced in the future, songs that aim to be liked by a large number of people?

do you recognize that there exists a collection of songs at any given moment that may be broadly categorized under the term "popular music"?

x-post- if you're just saying that it would be better to say "rap and r'n'b" than "black music" when referring to the genres that Billboard and this thread are referring to just say it. Your "industry manufactured pop music" term suggests an agenda and is also unclear.

nicky lo-fi, do you think that music only means anything if it was produced by something other than an 'industry' that 'manufactures pop music'?

nicky lo-fi, do you think that pitchfork is an 'industry'?

nicky lo-fi, what is your take on the following:

1. stereogum
2. fluxblog
3. gorilla v. bear
4. billboard

haha this is getting rough

nicky lo-fi, do you believe that we live in a 'post-racial America'?

nicki lo-fi, can you tell that some of us are drunk on saturday night?

People questioning rap sound exactly the same as my grandmama questioning rock & roll. It's sort of cute.
― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Thursday, October 12, 2006

so sticking up for rap means I'm not a rockiest, I guess? I hope fancy symbol dude caught that.

nicky the issue, in a nutshell, is that Billboard has made a variety of changes in how it puts together its charts over the past several years to factor in downloads/streaming in addition to the traditional radio play, and the demographic differences in who buys music on iTunes vs. who listens to the radio, etc. has seemed to diminish the presence of hip-hop and R&B on singles charts far more than any decline in the general popularity of those genres. a lot of other issues and nuances have been covered in this thread, if I had started it I probably wouldn't have made the title as focused as Rev did or used the phrase "black music" but I totally get why he did.

Another way of putting it: radio stations whose audiences are overwhelmingly black now disappear statistically, and they appear on the record as if their audiences like the same music which is favored by white audiences on iTunes. In fact, they don't, but history will record the hegemonic music as being beloved by all, and future production and programming decisions will be based on this egregious distortuon.

I would just like to go on the record as being a racist. Thank you all.

you are a goon, after all.

alright, thanks, that part I was pretty close on. I guess I'm just such a cynic about about the music biz that I assume whatever they do is because they think it will make more money.

so that it will always be catering to people with money. an example of this goes back to the 'race' records of the 20's and 30's

great blues, jazz, and gospel music the industry thought would not sell to white people, so they marketed to blacks only

http://www.pbs.org/jazz/images/exchange/racerecords.jpg

when white people started to buy, they not only stopped that marketing to black people, but even influenced a change in the style of jazz (the rise of the white big bands)

You do realize this thread is intended to track pretty much the exact same phenomenon, though?