Does anyone still shop at HMV?

Have seen a sign in a window of local HMV saying "No vouchers or giftcards accepted, also no refunds or exchanges". Tough shit if you bought something faulty from there yesterday.

Robert Peston was on the radio saying he thinks it's very unlikely the whole chain will close: the music and film industries have an interest in keeping it going, albeit with many stores closing. Not sure if that means they might keep the HMV name or not.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21023602

There are no record shops in my town, and haven't been for quite some time now. The only place you can buy a musical artefact is in the paltry Top 20 section in Sainsbury's, or to go over to David's Music in Letchworth - a formidable indie shop whose music section has sadly dwindled in recent years to make way for books, musical instruments and a tea and coffee bar. Nevertheless staff are friendly and helpful and I'll always remember it as my haunt; a little place to meditate and flick through racks after school, or even on a Saturday morning after coming home from staying out in London all night in my early-20s.

If HMV closes down, it spells the end for little record shops like this. As it stood, HMV was a key reason for record labels to keep producing physical media. Without the bread-and-butter power of big high street retailers like HMV, there is little motive for labels to continue to do this, and this will have a huge knock-on effect on smaller independent shops who also rely on these products to keep trading. I'm not sure how much Amazon and other online traders will help to keep physical formats buoyant; whether CD manufacturers would keep on selling via the internet, or if the demand would just dry up. There'll probably always be a market for vinyl, but I don't see it propping up the high street alone.

While this is clearly another door closing in the inevitable continuum of music media consumption (there's no need to get all Richard Hawley about it, nothing lasts forever), I can't help but feel a bit for those independent retailers, some of whom have been running from generation-to-generation for countless years. For some its their livelihoods and the only lives they know. So while I guess many of us are glad to see the back of the CD (a flawed format from the beginning), its death and the death of the music megastore carries a fair bit of clout and very likely heralds the end of leaving the house to buy new music.

Record labels (are they still called that or am I showing my age?)

...

xp

The death of browsing

Suddenly I realised the MD had stopped the meeting and was visibly angry. "I have never heard such rubbish", he said, "I accept that supermarkets are a thorn in our side but not for the serious music, games or film buyer and as for the other two, I don't ever see them being a real threat, downloadable music is just a fad and people will always want the atmosphere and experience of a music store rather than online shopping".

http://www.philipbeeching.com/2012/08/why-companies-fail-rise-and-fall-of-hmv.html

i used to like the atmosphere and experience of a record store, don't know what that has to do with HMV tbh

somewehre in amongst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on today people will still be buying and listening to music

they'll be doing it online though, which isn't a very atmospheric experience, more a handy commodity

i used to like the atmosphere and experience of a record store, don't know what that has to do with HMV tbh

yeah. bob stanley wrote something in his blog a year ago about how HMV used to (like, decades ago) be a destination where people would hang out - maybe those pix of the store in the 50s are shared in this thread above. the HMV Oxford Street of my youth wasn't a massively pleasant place to hang out, but it *did have a pretty unbeatable back catalogue stock, and so on, and I used to love just browsing through the racks, for hours at a time. I don't know when that ceased to be the case, and I'd probably 'graduated' to the indie stores in Soho by this point, but for a good few years I never had faith that HMV would actually have what I was after in stock, let alone be somewhere I'd want to spend any more than the time it took me to find what I was after, queue to purchase it and get the fuck out.

the issue is, if HMV shuts down it risks taking those Soho stores with it.

if HMV shuts down independent stores have lost a direct competitor i wd've thought.

but, y'know, as a good Thatcherite i'd argue that if enough people don't want the product you're selling then you probly don't have a business

I'm not sure I really get why HMV closing would hurt the Soho stores, DL - there are, what, four or five of them left and they seem to operate in a world which HMV has barely touched for years. Could you say a bit more about it?

xpost

I guess I'll have to switch to FOPP for my DVD buying, which isn't on the way home from work, so boo.

Some people are making the argument that the death of HMV as the last big high street retailer will ultimately lead to the death of physical media which will eventually close all those independents. Not sure I agree, though I think the market for physical media will continue to shrink.

I guess I'll have to switch to FOPP for my DVD buying, which isn't on the way home from work, so boo.

(who saved it from administration)

I wonder if this will effect All Tomorrow's Parties - aren't they half owned by someone owned by HMV?

Any profitable or even not-economically-insane bits of HMV will be sold off pretty quickly I think. That may or may not include any festival operations.

Two good blogposts, one from David Hepworth:

http://whatsheonaboutnow.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/if-hmv-goes-long-tail-goes-with-it.html

...and the other is Bob Stanley's piece from last year:

http://croydonmunicipal.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/how-hmv-can-save-itself.html

XP - ah well then, if the Oxford St store goes then I guess that's it for me, I do enjoy aimlessly wandering around the racks at HMV.

HMV surely won't affect the availability of that Bonnie Raitt record in some form or another though? The long tail of physical media is indeed probably gone now, digitally it's bigger than ever.

That Hepworth piece makes no sense at all to me; the Stanley one is pretty good, I think.

I don't think the death of HMV necessarily spells the end for indie retailers. It's possible for such places to continue and even thrive if they appeal to a particular demographic, are situated in the right part of town and provide a pleasant shopping experience. Resident in Brighton is doing very well indeed especially now that it's lost its main competitor in town (Rounder), every time I go there it's absolutely packed.

xposts I've certainly heard the case made (from people who work in and know about such things) that HMV represents the last bastion of physical media. Without a big retail presence like HMV on the high street, producing CDs etc on any grand scale simply stops being profitable for labels and manufacturers to continue selling merely through indie traders and supermarkets.

and online of course

dont know about death of physical media - vinyl sales have increased year on year for, what, 6-7 years now?

Sure it might be tiny compared to days gone by, but increasing is still increasing

The music industry has a big vested interest in keeping CDs going for a while longer I think, and some rump of HMV will probably survive. People still buy CDs online, in supermarkets etc as well. It's declining obviously but they'll be around a while longer.

Suspect classical music on CD will last longer than anything.

Those shops in Soho aren't selling many things "produced on a grand scale" though - they're mostly selling things produced in small quantities for small markets.

I can see the issue for your store in Letchworth, mind.

xpost

Also at the end of the day CDs just aren't that expensive to produce, which is why the industry made such a dizzying amount of money out of them, so production can be downscaled without becoming unviable.

somewehre in amongst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on today people will still be buying and listening to music

― non-elitist melted poo (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:33 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THIS THIS THIS THIS X 100000

Vinyl might be increasing, but if you compare the added gross gain of MP3s + Vinyl + CDs today witht he sale of CDs alone in the mid-late 90s, it's miniscule - particularly vinyl. Just because it's doubled in recent years means very very little. I still don't know whether the resurgence in vinyl will help small shops much in this climate - it's easier to find those first pressings and hard-to-finds online than in a shop.

i get why this is unfortunate for the music industry and it's awful for those about to be made redundant but: EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS COMING. this is not, in any way, a shocking development. it may or may not spell the death of physical media just yet, but it's a symptom not a cause because that has BEEN HAPPENING and is gonna continue to happen.

somewehre in amongst all the wailing and gnashing of teeth going on today people will still be buying and listening to music

― non-elitist melted poo (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:33 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THIS THIS THIS THIS X 100000

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 January 2013 11:09 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no one is arguing against this.

I wonder if production on demand in store could be made viable. It removes the expense of maintaining long tail stock and still gives the punters their thing in a box. There would be still be a market for deluxe/remasters/box-set type stock but for back catalogue CDs with 4 page inserts it might be feasible.

Vinyl might be increasing, but if you compare the added gross gain of MP3s + Vinyl + CDs today witht he sale of CDs alone in the mid-late 90s, it's miniscule - particularly vinyl. Just because it's doubled in recent years means very very little. I still don't know whether the resurgence in vinyl will help small shops much in this climate - it's easier to find those first pressings and hard-to-finds online than in a shop.

― besides Sunny Real Estate (dog latin), Tuesday, 15 January 2013 11:11 (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Still, this is a false figure for the music industry because production costs of recording, producing, manufacturing and distributing music today are much lower than ever before.

worried that my dog won't get the reference now if i were to jam his head into a gramophone cone

My issue with the Hepworth piece more fulsomely:

1) the idea that you would need a high-street retailer stocking substantial back catalogure to enable "the long tail" is rubbish - "the long tail" works just as well, better in fact, online where it's possible for retailers to hold centralised inventory cheaply
2) the idea that you need physical media to make "the long tail" work is also rubbish, if you can sell yer tail digitally it gets longer (and more profitable, as it goes)
3) the idea that HMV, even it's largest stores, has been comprehensively stocking back catalogue of any but the most prominent artists is laughable, and has been for at least as long as "The Long Tail" has been out.

my main memory of hmv is being charged depraved prices for cds in ireland as a kid/teen - albums for 20 pounds and stuff. fuck them, to be honest. i enjoyed buying music but it's not like they set the place up as a youth club or something, any positive experiences i had there were tangential.

i'd be more mournful about smaller record stores and particularly about the specialist store for particular genres, but there are good things about the digital world too. plus, living in london, i can still go to specialist stores if and when i want.

Also at the end of the day CDs just aren't that expensive to produce, which is why the industry made such a dizzying amount of money out of them

including HMV. bob's vision is an attractive one but HMV never, ever provided that - they just rinsed us out of exorbitant sums of money because people had no other real option. now we do, and they're fucked. good.

Yeah I feel bad for anyone whose job is threatened; I feel bad for the High Street in general, a "high street" is a thing I want to thrive in our towns because I think it makes towns feel better, happier, more interesting. I must say, though, I'm a bit surprised at the level of shock and dismay I'm hearing about this. It's not a surprise and I would be amazed if anyone *loved* HMV shops as they currently are.

That was an xpost, too, you'll be surprised to hear.

Don’t crow over people losing their jobs, Lex, as much as you might hate the company which employs or employed them.

There probably still is a viable market for vinyl but not if shops insist on charging £15-30 for something you could get second hand for a tenth of that.

There were always alternatives to HMV, lots of them. Even small or medium sized towns would have an Our Price or Virgin or whatever and many would have independents as well.

I'm not sure what kind of thing isn't going to be cheaper to find away from the high street in the future.

That said, i'd imagine there's probably room, in the short term, for a commercially-focused physical media outlet aimed at tourists on Oxford St, just not to the same scale as HMV.

don't forget woolies rip xp

xp to MC Isn't vinyl viewed as a luxury option these days though? Which perhaps allows prices to stay high, low elasticity of demand and all that? I would buy LOADS more vinyl if every record bought also offered a free download.

Nobody can justify charging £6.99 for a 7-inch single (as happened at Record Store Day last year with more than one item). The only people buying these things will be sad "collectors."

Don’t crow over people losing their jobs, Lex

― Here he is with the classic "Poème Électronique." Good track (Marcello Carlin), Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:24 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and it's awful for those about to be made redundant

― lex pretend, Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:11 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink