Are white people who say "I don't like hip hop" yet listen to it when white people make it really saying "i don't like black people"?

therefore, calling women 'bitches' is peachy. Also, the US never denied Jews humanity by birthright, so let's unload on them, too.

"Rock should have consisted of only the Paul McCartney branch, not the Lennon/Jagger/Richards one," he mourns archly. Detesting the very idea of white blues ("it's fundamentally racist"), he admits that his own aesthetic universe�from Nordic synthipop to redneck C&W�is "so darn white!" "I'm not so concerned with rhythm or syncopation, which are the main concerns of black music after Duke Ellington."

okay, see, this is why I hate discussions like this. this comparison shouldn't happen. I mean, it can't be substantiated and in a weird way it plays sexism off against racism as though they're discrete and comparable entities, when in the real world they're messily intertwined in all sorts of ways. when you start saying things are the same, you lose the particularities of how they actually operate.

No they thought they were fucking someone who didn't count AT ALL for voting purposes.

And while TT/JD might be right about a few folks being more willing to get into racial issues than gender ones, I don't think that's representative of the wider world, where for many many people the opposite is true. I think that as a point of argument it might work with some people on ilm but in the wider world there are plenty of racist feminists who've done the same thing in reverse, and there's evidence of this throughout history, so I don't think its fair to generalize.

Yeah it's been historically important in reifying their place as second class citizens.

was turned into this:
merritt's assertion that duke ellington ruined american music by 'africanizing' it and that's why the pop charts are filled with 'mongrels' now (ca. spring 2000) and that's why abba could never chart now

are you playing a subset ("rappers") against the general population here? I also find that "conditionally" thing total garbage, the madonna-whore/bitch bit is the exact same power dynamic as "I know some good 'uns, hard workers, but most of 'em are shiftless"

deej I'm talking specifically about ILM, because I think that gender inequity & racial inequity are parts of the same disease, and that to care about one and not the other is effectively to care about neither

xpost no James I don't! same power dynamic! Ethan you're not seriously arguing that abusive language toward women is as common in rock records as it is in rap ones, are you? 'cause if you are you are smokin' that loco weed

hip-hop: misogynist
rock: you can't seriously think it's misogynist, that's crazy talk

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

you know personally that I've been a feminist most of my lif

was turned into this:
merritt's assertion that duke ellington ruined american music by 'africanizing' it and that's why the pop charts are filled with 'mongrels' now (ca. spring 2000) and that's why abba could never chart now

No, it got turned into:

"AS A WHITE MAN, I HATE NIGGERS!!"

I have to say, this is fairly well OTM, except of course I'll still argue that (what I actually said, mind) openly abusive language should be discouraged - one could make the case, I guess, that rock uses less of it because white culture is so heavily shame-based that it cloaks its motivations even when it doesn't really need to. But what I meant - what I'm pretty sure I said outright! - is that rap uses the word "bitch" both as a general descriptive & abusive epithet, and that that's harmful and wrong, whereas rock does so far less often. And that the use of "bitch" as a way of emasculating one's enemies offers further proof, if any were needed, that the word is indicative of contempt for women.

xpost James I only picked indie 'cause I don't listen to or write about any mainstream rock, I just don't give a shit about it! why I get all worked up about rap = I used to enjoy the music & now I don't, just can't, because it's so fucking openly hateful; indie rock stuff (and metal) is either off in its own nonsense universe, or somewhat engaged with the question. But maybe you guys are hearing rock tunes about beating up women that I'm not, I dunno!

FIGHT FOR JUSTICE, MAN