Salsa is dead, reggaeton is dead: Long live the rolling Afro-Latin music thread 2009

Re Aventura, it's not just the heartthrob schtick that bugs me, it's the guitar sound of pop bachata

i can see that, it'd definitely turn me off in most any other genre but coming from just a dancing perspective, bachata rhythms at the core are so simple/understated it's actually a nice addition considering not much is there in the first place.

ahhh i just read the above post about hip-hop domincano is dead... lol, sheesh. i guess they're not all that big (although they've got xemo and villano sam on it so they must be making some waves), and if one wants to squabble about the lines between rap and hip-hop then fine it won't apply but all i have to say in regard to this is: THE EVILTWINZ. if applicable, that recent mixtape they did "we here now" blows this sentiment out of the water.

Christgau made the original list from big-selling artists that he was not that familar with

okay, yeah salsa artists n'klabe and ng2 definitely need to be brought up here - the only reason i've even know about them is because they're up for univision's tropical album of the year award in march. yeah, award shows are always suspect but i tend to give any outlet that's not part of the english us mainstream machine benefit of the doubt, and tried them out - cannot put ng2's album in the running, "con todas las de ganar" down. i think n'klabe's album up for it, "la nueva escuela" is just ok, but then i went back and checked out their 2004 album "salsa contra viento y marea" which KILLS it.

also: reggaeton dude voltiooooooo. his track "ella menea" is actually just a remix off that ng2 album, both versions are on theirs.

NG2 is one of those Victor Manuelle/Gilberto Santa Rosa projects. VM/GSR produce them and they are pretty much a VM/GSR brain-child. VM has written for N'Klabe, as well. I'm not hugely thrilled with either band, and they certainly take a lot of abuse (especially N'Klabe). The first NG2 album was pretty experimental (that might be the 2004 one you mention) in its way, pulling in a lot of stuff from Cuban timba. (My favorite track from that is a salsaton type number.) And I liked "I Love Salsa" probably more than the next guy, but I can't take N'Klabe too seriously.

Incidentally (I hope she doesn't mind me saying this), Nina hasn't reappeared on this thread due to ILX account problems.

huh?

Descarga is now pushing new Orestes Vilató album, his first as leader. Looks good to me.

huh?

I don't know what happned but it sounds like she tried to change her password and didn't get the new one but doesn't remember the old one. Etc. Maybe she'd have to change her e-mail address to re-register, and I doubt she can be bothered.

Another Buena Vista member has passed on--bassist Orlando Cachaito Lopez. R.I.P. (Ned Sublette linked to this Miami Herald article in his e-mail service)

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2009/02/10/index.php?section=espectaculos&article=a09n1esp

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/AP/v-print/story/896245.html

Posted on Mon, Feb. 09, 2009
Buena Vista Social Club bassist Lopez dead at 76
By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ
Orlando "Cachaito" Lopez, considered the "heartbeat" of Cuba's
legendary Buena Vista Social Club for his internationally acclaimed bass
playing, died Monday of complications from prostate surgery, fellow
musicians said. He was 76.
Lopez, a founding member of the band brought together in the
1990s by American guitarist and producer Ry Cooder, died in a Havana
hospital several days after surgery, said Manuel Galban, a Cuban musician
who played with Lopez for decades.

"We have lost a great companion," said Galban.

Born in Havana in 1933, Lopez became an international sensation
as part of the Buena Vista Social Club - a group of elderly, sometimes
retired, musicians who were living quietly in Cuba before Cooder brought
them together and they became worldwide sensations.

"I will remember him as marvelous, both in his music and as a
person," Galban, a guitarist, said by telephone. "He was extraordinary,
affable, a great bassist."

Lopez died less than a week after turned 76.

"I called him last week because it was his birthday and his
voice didn't sound too good," said musician Amadito Valdes, who added that
Lopez had undergone prostate surgery several days ago. "He was a person who
was always sharing with everyone around him, very noble."

Lopez was held by many to be Buena Vista's heartbeat and had
played to international audiences as part of its touring company.

The group, which plays a mix of traditional Cuban rhythms, has
lost many of its key members of late. Singer Compay Segundo - who was born
Maximo Francisco Repilado Munoz - pianist Ruben Gonzalez, and vocalists
Ibrahim Ferrer and Pio Leyva have all died in recent years.

But Lopez was also a star in his own right, independent of Buena
Vista. His groundbreaking debut album Cachaito won a BBC Radio 3 Award for
World Music in 2002.

Lopez hailed from a family of at least 30 bass players,
including his uncle, legendary bassist Israel "Cachao" Lopez. His nickname
translates to "Little Cachao." His father Orestes played piano and cello in
addition to the bass and was also a composer.

Lopez originally played the violin, but as he said publicly many
times, eventually switched to the bass after his grandfather urged him to
take up the family craft.

He was a pioneer of Cuban mambo, and by 17 was part of a noted
big band group known as Riverside. He later joined Cuba's national symphony.
He also played with a band called "Los Zafiros."

Lopez was at home playing classic as well as popular music but
also dabbled in late night jazz and jazz fusion.

However, he only gained international notoriety when Cooder
brought him together with such standouts as Compay Segundo, Ibrahim Ferrer,
Ruben Gonzalez and Omara Portuondo to form Buena Vista.

Later, Wim Wenders released a documentary titled Buena Vista
Social Club, in which he profiled the musicians whose talents had all but
been forgotten.

Family members planned to cremate the body but there was no
immediate word on funeral services.

Ah, he was Cachao's nephew.

And "Macho"'s son. Only outlived his uncle by a year. Didn't know that he had played with Los Zafiros. RIP.

Now there are a couple more good responses (including a very detailed rundown by Carlos Reyes) on that Xgau blog post, btw:

http://www.najp.org/articles/2009/02/anuncios-de-servicio-publico.html#comments

Eddie Palmieri and La Perfecta II at Lincoln Center. Man, I wish I had gone to see this.

Carlos Reyes' expanded list/description is gonna send me to the record store - not a good thing, since I'm newly unemployed.

I wouldn't trust that blog guy's rankings (on the Christgau site).

(Well for stuff I care about anyway, which is only maybe a third of it, if that. Also, why you would trust my rating of his ratings. . .)

He hates on Enrique Iglesias. I never really paid attention to him but this cool dude plays with him and says good things about him, so the guy can't be all bad.
(haha xpost)

He criticizes Victor Manuelle because Manuelle likes to improvise. That's an essential part of salsa's vocal aesthetic!

U right about that.

Looks like next time EP appears in NYC is at S.O.B.'s on April 16. Not billed as a La Perfecta II gig though.

Is it wrong of me to say Ivy Queen is a man, baby?

aka Sending Subscription She-males

Sorry.

I have issues with this site. I'll have to paste the password on the monitor.
Ignore Carlos Reyes, I mean he knows the sht he likes, but he doesnt get reggaeton much. His aesthetic is totally different so his take on what is good in afro-latin music is pretty much the opposite of what most fans' would be.
And not to play a certain card, but he likes the whiter less urban stuff and dislikes the gritty shit.
Now Im not saying you should like Hector el Father. But if you like Calle 13 and think Ivy Queen and Hector El Father are so so and love Alexis and Fido, you are probably not judging the music from a fans perspective. Which is ok.
But state it as opinion. Like it or not, Hector and IQ are pretty representative of the "standards" of the genre.

La India? Her voice SUCKS. Sucks. Reeks.
And saying a salsero improvises too much, thats like saying hiphop has too much rapping in it.

That last part sounds like he was making a joke that backfired.

state it as opinion

He did.

Otherwise, I am thoroughly enjoying this debate (partly because I have no coherent opinion myself.)

I think there was a point when there was some kind of big push for La India as "the next Celia Cruz" and she made an album with Tito Puente and Hilton Ruiz and people like that, but seems like the grassroots support wasn't really there.

xp (Well, no coherent opinion except that he didn't give Yolanda Perez and Jenni Rivera enough stars.)

One of the problems I see here is that Latin/Spanish language music has a bunch of different stuff going on and lots of people who like one thing don't necessary like another. Just to ask "explain what all this is" is casting too wide a net. Maybe Bob X should just start small with a Trio Los Panchos record and work his way up from there. He wrote a blurb about the Ned Sublette Cuba book saying how "Even in Spanish, there is nothing nearly so thorough" (!!) and I think he gave those Cachao comebacks As so presumably he knows something about about that side of things- maybe it's Latin/Spanish pop he is trying to get a handle on.

Yea, I agree about the wide net. Carlos Reyes is more into Latin electro-dance and alt-rock it seems although he likes some reggaeton (but naturally it's the more alt sounding stuff). It appears that some of his blog readers are disappointed that he likes any reggaeton.

It will be interesting to see where Christgau goes from here on this. I was thinking about how Sasha Frere-Jones wrote up a reggaeton show at Madison Square Garden for the New Yorker a long while back, and has not touched Latin music of any kind since. But that was when reggaeton was having its big crossover moment on r'n'b and rap radio, and that's more SFJ's area of interest I guess. Christgau has seemed to show more interest in some ways over a longer period.

I wish my basic cable package (from Comcast) included a Latin music video channel

I dont like some forms of music, but I try to be objective. On the Reggaetonica blog someone was criticizing the rap skills of reggaeton artists, comparing them to those of the best hiphop rappers. I think its unfair to judge any genre as if it were another.
Just like those dog shows- if you cant objectively evaluate the individual members of a breed based on that breeds standards, instead comparing them all to your favorite, get out of the ring and let someone else do it. And be honest and state that you arent objective.
Since my dogs are both underfoot, I'll stick with the dog analogy. I think too many people, as far as reggaeton, get caught up in trying to evaluate it as if it were hiphop. Thats like me complaining everytime I see a Rottweiler that its too heavy, to large, to blocky and doesnt have a pointy muzzle like a Doberman. Hey, they look similar, they share common ancestors. They are not the same thing. The best Rott doesn't look like the best Dobie. If you are unable to put aside your preferences pr simply aren't aware that there are different standards, get out of the way and be quiet unless you can be clear that you arent qualified to judge merely to opine.

in regard to sunez' comments brought up on reggaetonica back when, it wasn't really even an issue of trying to compare disparate genres - the issue was just that he tried calling tego calderon out as an average mc, which just isn't the case, in hip-hop or otherwise.

May go to Cucu Diamantes with Bio Ritmo tonight...

With Sunez comparing the skills of Tego to Rakim I think he was comparing disparate genres. Would one compare Billie Holiday's mic skills with those of Marian Anderson?
If one expects Billie to sing like Marian or vice versa, sure one may be considered merely "average".
Though most reggaeton fans like hip-hop, that doesn't mean they want and like the same sounds in both. What works in hiphop doesnt always(usually) work in reggaeton. So what may sound to a hiphop fan like weak flow, may be exactly what a reggaeton fan likes.
Sort of like someone saying Lavoe is a bad singer, he's so nasal. Well, DUH...

I have issues with this site.

We all do.

Nina, as a side issue, I actually think Hector el Father's work under his own name tends to be weak, but as we've discussed, I agree that he is good as an MC (or whatever I am supposed to call reggaeton vocalists). I think if you were to collect all the cases when he's made an appearance on other people's tracks, that would be an impressive collection, more impressive then his solo "albums." (I can't entirely blame someone for dismissing him on the basis of Los Rompe Discotekas--that was the one with Jay-Z on it for those who aren't familiar by title.)

I very much prefer Tito to Hector, who just kinda washes over me.

I can't even remember what Tito El Bambino sounds like (not to put him down, because I think I like him some of the time, though I wouldn't know it from my complete lack of any memory of his sound).

I think Hector's solo stuff is so weak because it came when they were trying to do that hiphop crossover stuff.
I suppose since I am not an album listener, but a track listener, my view of his body of work is different. I think of all the cameos and guest spots, not just his cds.

Tito was a good counterpoint to Hector when they were together, alone his voice has little heft. Plus, now that he croons its gotten really soft.

Hector & Tito

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Tito-
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dammit
how the heck do i DO that????

This thing is already formatted to embed youtube videos. You just need to copy the url.

From Puerto Rico

JOWELL & RANDY

LOS MAS SUELTOS DEL REGGAETON

PERFORMING LIVE!

THURSDAY MARCH 5TH

@

IBIZA NIGHT CLUB

Thursday's a busy Dad night for me, so no live reggaeton.

yeah, just caught rolo's email. not really into jowell and randy but may check it out anyway.

I've never been to Ibiza. I've seen reggaeton at H20, the Patriot Center, and El Boqueron II.

Rumbera, I kinda love Tito's lightweight-going-hard-like-the-big-boys thing. When he does that, at least. His croonier stuff does dissolve into mush, I give you that.

Thanks. Man all these forums,platforms etc handle youtube differently and I just cant remember how to format the links.

Ok, lets try this again.

Hector and Tito when they were trying to be hard. Gata Celosa

From La Reconquista aka the yelling album. For those who dont speak spanish, this is a song seducing a woman. I realized a lot of people arent aware of the proper emotional tone of the songs becasue they hear the music and vocals but dont know the lyrics. Well, its a song to a hot chick and then segues into a song about heartbreak.

Hector pops in for a few with Trebol Clan

IMO Hector's verse on this one is the best of the song Noche de Entierro @ 1:06
"maria lola vete soy perrito viente cuartro siete"

and he does a good job on what I see as the predecessor to NDE, Mayor Que Yo

He comes in at about 3:04

Noche de Travesura, yet another kickass bachaton

Hector on Vamos Pa La Calle

Classic Hector & Tito

Tito belting out my favorite reggaeton power ballad, Te Encontrare. Very heavily modified vocals tho.That section from 1:02 to 1:14, specifically 1:12 is what makes the song.

Tito and Olga Tanon- He totally needs a deeper voice to offset his, even if its a woman's voice.
In keeping with her being older and having the deeper voice, I love how he assumes the submissive position when he approaches her to dance, even slapping his own ass!! I havent heard this sort of merengue in years, I've missed it.

OOps, Mayor Que Yo with Hector's verse.

thanks! will get on project hector at some point

Joe Cuba R.I.P. (Father of Boogaloo/Bang! Bang! Push! Push!)

RIP Joe Cuba thread

NY Times Article about Fania songwriter Tite and how 5 years after his death a compilation of his songs is out and doing well

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/arts/music/18tite.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

He never did give up that day job, laboring in the Postal Service in Puerto Rico for more than 30 years, mainly as a clerk. But in the recording studio the biggest names in salsa, from Willie Colón and Héctor Lavoe to Celia Cruz and La Lupe, all deferred to Catalino Curet Alonso, the man — known to all as Tite (pronounced “TEE-tay”) — who seemed to be able to write hits for them at will.

That was a great article. I was going to link to it with the xhuxk-like title I Have Never Heard Of This Latino Tunesmith Named Tite Until Today Even Though He Wrote Two Of My Favorite Songs: "Anacoana" and "Puro Teatro."