Fleetwood Mac: Classic or Dud

Picturing Taylor Swift throwing a b-ball at Ed Sheeran in a mixing desk rage. Thanking you.

I'm not trying to convince you. xpost There is no excuse to hit or abuse anyone, especially not your sig. other. I would not be surprised that Buckingham was an emotionally abusive person, prone to screaming, fits, maybe even violence. But so far the only source, anywhere - I read Caillat's book, and don't remember him going into this in much detail - that really goes into is the Harris book, which, again, does not make it untrue. But the difference between Buckingham and Rice, Brown, Ike et al. is that the violence of the latter crew has been well-documented. Buckingham is a massively public figure with massively public relationships, from a band famous above all else for its emotional distress and discussing it, at length, through song and interviews and, yes, tell-alls and docs. It would take a hundred people turning their backs or covering up for him to keep this physically abusive side of him a secret for decades, though I admit it's possible! It's a scummy business. I've read enough of these tell alls, from Motley Crue to Peter Criss to Zevon to whomever to believe they're likely all terrible people prone to far worse than what actually gets reported.

But so far the only source, anywhere - I read Caillat's book, and don't remember him going into this in much detail - that really goes into is the Harris book

Since I have the Caillat book on Kindle, allow me to refresh your memory:

Suddenly, Lindsey barged through the front door from the street and went directly into the studio. A few minutes later, Richard and Christina came in the back door, having parked behind the studio. They both walked past Lindsey without saying a word and went directly into the control room. Christina was white and trembling. There were no jokes coming from Richard, either. “I’ll go talk to him,” Richard said to Christina.

He walked out of the control room and closed the door. “What happened?” I asked Christina, who had begun to cry hysterically. “I don’t know. I think it’s over. And what’s worse is that Lindsey punched me in the face. Then he started yelling all this crazy stuff about how he couldn’t take it, and I had to leave.” Richard came in and told Christina that Lindsey was sorry, that he didn’t know what had happened, but he did want her to leave.

I called a cab for Christina, and that was it. She was gone. I really thought Christina and Lindsey had been great together. I’ll never forget how she trembled after Lindsey attacked her. Her face had red marks on it where he had hit her. Lindsey always seemed to be wound a little too tight, but I hadn’t expected that he would get physical with a woman. I felt sick, as if the magic had been destroyed.

Little did I know that I would also experience his physical rage in the near future. Richard was upset, too. He had been at the house at the time and had seen the whole thing. “What are you doing, Lindsey? Are you fucking crazy?” he demanded when we were alone with Lindsey. “You don’t do that to people!” “I know. You’re right,” Lindsey said. “I don’t know why she got me that mad.”

“Let’s get out of here,” Richard said. Lindsey and I agreed. It was Saturday, and we decided to take a break until Monday at noon.

...

The guys were getting along really well at this point, but I kept thinking about what Lindsey had done to Christina a couple days before. I was fighting a battle, admiring his musical genius and being disgusted by his personal behavior. I guess I should have been prepared for his violent streak against Christina by his actions in the past, but time would reveal the real Lindsey to me soon enough. I’d had the weekend to think about Lindsey’s attack against Christina. Talking to Cheryl had helped. She felt that it was good that Christina was gone, or it probably would have gotten worse. I wondered whether Lindsey had ever physically hurt Stevie.

I didn’t know if he had in the past, but I would see him kick her in the butt onstage during the Tusk tour three years later.

And I'm not even including the part where Lindsey chokes Caillat for erasing a track he asked him to tape over

Not a lot of shades of grey here, Josh.

Yeah, sounds like a dick, a massively enabled dick working in a world of fellow massively enabled and enabling dicks. It's just a shame that this stuff stays silent for decades until it's time for someone to write a book.

I don't know, but is there a distinction to be made between a person prone to violent outbursts and someone with a specific pattern of physically abusing women? He sounds like an abusive person, period.

I don't know, but is there a distinction to be made between a person prone to violent outbursts and someone with a specific pattern of physically abusing women? He sounds like an abusive person, period.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, April 4, 2013 3:27 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't know what incredibly fine hair you are trying to split here.

I'm not! But wife/girlfriend beater is the absolute bottom, as far as distinctions go. There are a host of horrible people in music and stuff who are not held in nearly as ill esteem as others who beat or otherwise abuse women.

I guess I'm just trying to gauge how irredeemable he is, or these belated revelations make him. The closest analogy I can think of is a pro athlete. If an athlete is caught doing drugs, that's one thing. If an athlete is caught using steroids, that's as bad as it gets, and that will be an asterisk that follows him around for the rest of his life.

does it matter whether he's irredeemable? I mean, he's an irredeemable asshole who made fantastic music.

It matters a little to me, yeah, especially since he seems to have made a conscious effort to chill out and make himself better. Operative word being "seems," I guess. As opposed to the usual unrepentant suspects.

I wondered whether Lindsey had ever physically hurt Stevie.

well there was this:

"I was crying when we took that picture. And Lindsey was mad at me. He said, 'You know, you're just being a child. This is art.' And I'm going, 'This is not *art*. This is me taking a nude photograph with you, and I don't dig it.'"

For a bunch of sixty-year olds they sure can put on a good show! I seriously feared Lindsey was gonna have a heart attack after "I'm So Afraid." They have a new song called "Sad Angel" and it's gonna be a huge hit. Stevie was singing like an angel, and they all looked like they were having the time of their lives up there. Rock!

I guess I'm just trying to gauge how irredeemable he is, or these belated revelations make him. The closest analogy I can think of is a pro athlete. If an athlete is caught doing drugs, that's one thing. If an athlete is caught using steroids, that's as bad as it gets, and that will be an asterisk that follows him around for the rest of his life.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, April 4, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's much more like when an athlete beats his wife.

xp that's nice to hear, Mr. Snrub. I 've got tix to see them soon, and am a tad nervous (first time seeing them ... emotionally invested in the music ... expectations yadda yadda...)

classic

http://www.bigozine2.com/TRKSB/FMcolumbus/FMcolumbus104.mp3
[live debut of that new song]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/music/midnight-sun-blog/bal-fleetwood-mac-at-verizon-center-review,0,4842455.story
Nice review of the Baltimore gig from Lexie Mountain.

Technically, that's really the Baltimore Sun review of a show in Washington DC at the Verizon Center. Here's the W. Post freelancer's take:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/fleetwood-mac-relives-rumours-as-crowd-revels-in-hits-at-verizon-center/2013/04/10/118044a0-a1e5-11e2-9c03-6952ff305f35_story.html

This is such a weird, weirdly wrong graf:

The night wasn’t only about “Rumours.” Drummer Mick Fleetwood, 65, who lived in the D.C. area in the 1990s while running a nightclub named Fleetwood’s in Alexandria, got to shine during “Not That Funny” and “Tusk,” both cuts from a 1979 percussion-heavy double LP also called “Tusk” that served as a sort of musical equivalent of “Heaven’s Gate.” The band delivered the collection so over budget (it was labeled the costliest record ever made) that the album was considered a flop before it hit the bins. But, as Buckingham boasted while introducing the “Tusk” portion of the set, time has been kind. The record ended up selling in the multi-platinum range and has been embraced in more recent decades by scads of indie-rock bands, who have mined edginess from perhaps the most middle-of-the-road band in rock annals. Two examples: The Decemberists covered “Think About Me,” and Camper Van Beethoven covered the entire two-record set.

I had never heard the Peter Green stuff....it's awesome! What should I go for after Best Of...which is all I've heard? Thanks.

The Best Of actually does a pretty good job, imo. Though Green is a great player, so maybe some live stuff?

Mick Fleetwood, 65, who lived in the D.C. area in the 1990s while running a nightclub named Fleetwood’s in Alexandria

mad i didn't know this (but i guess i wasn't old enough to go at the time anyway)

Drove down from Boston to see FM at Mohegan Sun tonight. I have a lot of thoughts, but I'm quite tired so I'll keep it short:

They are really into it.

Mick Fleetwood, 65, who lived in the D.C. area in the 1990s while running a nightclub named Fleetwood’s in Alexandria

anyone know what this club was like?

i've never been there but i know it was awesome

So when is that new EP coming out?

has this been mentioned re: christine?

‘If they wanted me to, I might pop back on stage when they’re in London,’ she says, gracing me with a rare interview, ‘just to do a little duet or something like that.’

:O http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/04/fleetwood-mac-the-resurgent-1970s-icons-head-out-on-a-new-world-tour-3581866/

So when is that new EP coming out?

― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, April 24, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This week, possibly tomorrow, I heard.

Recent performance of one of the new songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CITTkWQyf4g

EP's out!

where? iTunes?

Yep. Two Buckingham, one Nicks.

Buckingham-Nicks musical collab is approx. 45 yrs old now. So is Fleetwood-McVie.

Just thought I'd point that out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzZCoe38_hM

That exchange may be the all-time greatest moment from Mighty Boosh

That and the 'Gary Numan vs. Jazz-Funk' exchange.

aaah i love that Tusk bit

A terrific recent Nicks interview. Has she ever sounded this perceptive and healthy? Note how she and a fan break down thinking of each other's moms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXg2kZV8-6s

Ooh, will watch asap

on record store day a woman picked up tusk and asked the guy she was with if it was good and he said, in an authoritative tone, "it's a late work, but i think some people consider it to be good." some people.

someone introduce lindsey to a graphic designer pls

"it's a late work, but i think some people consider it to be good."

BAAAARFF

as if there are "some people" for whom the song Sara means nothing.

idk, you overhear a lot of weird things on record store day

that's alllllll for everyoooonee

What makes think you're the one who can record store day without cryin?

"it's a late work, but i think some people consider it to be good."

why do people who don't have any opinions still feel the need to have and share an opinion?

yeah OMG i cant believe someone had an opinion on a record and responded to a direct question about said record with the opinion

it's not really an opinion, is it, though? it says nothing.

It's not an opinion -- it's the floundering of a dude who steals his expertise from what he reads who can't remember what he read about the record in question.

Note how she and a fan break down thinking of each other's moms.

OK, haven't watched this yet, but I will when I get a chance. But the situation reminds me of this Nicks radio interview she did in the late 80s. They were taking phone calls from listeners and this young woman calls in like "my best friend is dying in the hospital and she's a huge Stevie Nicks fan, will you come out and visit her." And Nicks respectfully declined, but she was obviously totally shook up by the request. It made me think about all the weighty emotional stuff that people probably share with musicians or other celebrities and entertainers that they feel some sort of deep connection to. I know even smaller indoor artists get more of this kind of contact than they can stand sometimes, but I'd bet that Nicks might attract this line of outreach, even moreso than lots of other mega celebrities.

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/27/christine_mcvie_reunites_with_fleetwood_mac_to_play_dont_stop/

awww, Christine played "Don't Stop" with the Mac last nite