Salsa is dead, reggaeton is dead: Long live the rolling Afro-Latin music thread 2009

I wouldn't trust that blog guy's rankings (on the Christgau site).

(Well for stuff I care about anyway, which is only maybe a third of it, if that. Also, why you would trust my rating of his ratings. . .)

He hates on Enrique Iglesias. I never really paid attention to him but this cool dude plays with him and says good things about him, so the guy can't be all bad.
(haha xpost)

He criticizes Victor Manuelle because Manuelle likes to improvise. That's an essential part of salsa's vocal aesthetic!

U right about that.

Looks like next time EP appears in NYC is at S.O.B.'s on April 16. Not billed as a La Perfecta II gig though.

Is it wrong of me to say Ivy Queen is a man, baby?

aka Sending Subscription She-males

Sorry.

I have issues with this site. I'll have to paste the password on the monitor.
Ignore Carlos Reyes, I mean he knows the sht he likes, but he doesnt get reggaeton much. His aesthetic is totally different so his take on what is good in afro-latin music is pretty much the opposite of what most fans' would be.
And not to play a certain card, but he likes the whiter less urban stuff and dislikes the gritty shit.
Now Im not saying you should like Hector el Father. But if you like Calle 13 and think Ivy Queen and Hector El Father are so so and love Alexis and Fido, you are probably not judging the music from a fans perspective. Which is ok.
But state it as opinion. Like it or not, Hector and IQ are pretty representative of the "standards" of the genre.

La India? Her voice SUCKS. Sucks. Reeks.
And saying a salsero improvises too much, thats like saying hiphop has too much rapping in it.

That last part sounds like he was making a joke that backfired.

state it as opinion

He did.

Otherwise, I am thoroughly enjoying this debate (partly because I have no coherent opinion myself.)

I think there was a point when there was some kind of big push for La India as "the next Celia Cruz" and she made an album with Tito Puente and Hilton Ruiz and people like that, but seems like the grassroots support wasn't really there.

xp (Well, no coherent opinion except that he didn't give Yolanda Perez and Jenni Rivera enough stars.)

One of the problems I see here is that Latin/Spanish language music has a bunch of different stuff going on and lots of people who like one thing don't necessary like another. Just to ask "explain what all this is" is casting too wide a net. Maybe Bob X should just start small with a Trio Los Panchos record and work his way up from there. He wrote a blurb about the Ned Sublette Cuba book saying how "Even in Spanish, there is nothing nearly so thorough" (!!) and I think he gave those Cachao comebacks As so presumably he knows something about about that side of things- maybe it's Latin/Spanish pop he is trying to get a handle on.

Yea, I agree about the wide net. Carlos Reyes is more into Latin electro-dance and alt-rock it seems although he likes some reggaeton (but naturally it's the more alt sounding stuff). It appears that some of his blog readers are disappointed that he likes any reggaeton.

It will be interesting to see where Christgau goes from here on this. I was thinking about how Sasha Frere-Jones wrote up a reggaeton show at Madison Square Garden for the New Yorker a long while back, and has not touched Latin music of any kind since. But that was when reggaeton was having its big crossover moment on r'n'b and rap radio, and that's more SFJ's area of interest I guess. Christgau has seemed to show more interest in some ways over a longer period.

I wish my basic cable package (from Comcast) included a Latin music video channel

I dont like some forms of music, but I try to be objective. On the Reggaetonica blog someone was criticizing the rap skills of reggaeton artists, comparing them to those of the best hiphop rappers. I think its unfair to judge any genre as if it were another.
Just like those dog shows- if you cant objectively evaluate the individual members of a breed based on that breeds standards, instead comparing them all to your favorite, get out of the ring and let someone else do it. And be honest and state that you arent objective.
Since my dogs are both underfoot, I'll stick with the dog analogy. I think too many people, as far as reggaeton, get caught up in trying to evaluate it as if it were hiphop. Thats like me complaining everytime I see a Rottweiler that its too heavy, to large, to blocky and doesnt have a pointy muzzle like a Doberman. Hey, they look similar, they share common ancestors. They are not the same thing. The best Rott doesn't look like the best Dobie. If you are unable to put aside your preferences pr simply aren't aware that there are different standards, get out of the way and be quiet unless you can be clear that you arent qualified to judge merely to opine.

in regard to sunez' comments brought up on reggaetonica back when, it wasn't really even an issue of trying to compare disparate genres - the issue was just that he tried calling tego calderon out as an average mc, which just isn't the case, in hip-hop or otherwise.

May go to Cucu Diamantes with Bio Ritmo tonight...

With Sunez comparing the skills of Tego to Rakim I think he was comparing disparate genres. Would one compare Billie Holiday's mic skills with those of Marian Anderson?
If one expects Billie to sing like Marian or vice versa, sure one may be considered merely "average".
Though most reggaeton fans like hip-hop, that doesn't mean they want and like the same sounds in both. What works in hiphop doesnt always(usually) work in reggaeton. So what may sound to a hiphop fan like weak flow, may be exactly what a reggaeton fan likes.
Sort of like someone saying Lavoe is a bad singer, he's so nasal. Well, DUH...

I have issues with this site.

We all do.

Nina, as a side issue, I actually think Hector el Father's work under his own name tends to be weak, but as we've discussed, I agree that he is good as an MC (or whatever I am supposed to call reggaeton vocalists). I think if you were to collect all the cases when he's made an appearance on other people's tracks, that would be an impressive collection, more impressive then his solo "albums." (I can't entirely blame someone for dismissing him on the basis of Los Rompe Discotekas--that was the one with Jay-Z on it for those who aren't familiar by title.)

I very much prefer Tito to Hector, who just kinda washes over me.

I can't even remember what Tito El Bambino sounds like (not to put him down, because I think I like him some of the time, though I wouldn't know it from my complete lack of any memory of his sound).

I think Hector's solo stuff is so weak because it came when they were trying to do that hiphop crossover stuff.
I suppose since I am not an album listener, but a track listener, my view of his body of work is different. I think of all the cameos and guest spots, not just his cds.

Tito was a good counterpoint to Hector when they were together, alone his voice has little heft. Plus, now that he croons its gotten really soft.

Hector & Tito

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Tito-
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dammit
how the heck do i DO that????

This thing is already formatted to embed youtube videos. You just need to copy the url.

From Puerto Rico

JOWELL & RANDY

LOS MAS SUELTOS DEL REGGAETON

PERFORMING LIVE!

THURSDAY MARCH 5TH

@

IBIZA NIGHT CLUB

Thursday's a busy Dad night for me, so no live reggaeton.

yeah, just caught rolo's email. not really into jowell and randy but may check it out anyway.

I've never been to Ibiza. I've seen reggaeton at H20, the Patriot Center, and El Boqueron II.

Rumbera, I kinda love Tito's lightweight-going-hard-like-the-big-boys thing. When he does that, at least. His croonier stuff does dissolve into mush, I give you that.

Thanks. Man all these forums,platforms etc handle youtube differently and I just cant remember how to format the links.

Ok, lets try this again.

Hector and Tito when they were trying to be hard. Gata Celosa

From La Reconquista aka the yelling album. For those who dont speak spanish, this is a song seducing a woman. I realized a lot of people arent aware of the proper emotional tone of the songs becasue they hear the music and vocals but dont know the lyrics. Well, its a song to a hot chick and then segues into a song about heartbreak.

Hector pops in for a few with Trebol Clan

IMO Hector's verse on this one is the best of the song Noche de Entierro @ 1:06
"maria lola vete soy perrito viente cuartro siete"

and he does a good job on what I see as the predecessor to NDE, Mayor Que Yo

He comes in at about 3:04

Noche de Travesura, yet another kickass bachaton

Hector on Vamos Pa La Calle

Classic Hector & Tito

Tito belting out my favorite reggaeton power ballad, Te Encontrare. Very heavily modified vocals tho.That section from 1:02 to 1:14, specifically 1:12 is what makes the song.

Tito and Olga Tanon- He totally needs a deeper voice to offset his, even if its a woman's voice.
In keeping with her being older and having the deeper voice, I love how he assumes the submissive position when he approaches her to dance, even slapping his own ass!! I havent heard this sort of merengue in years, I've missed it.

OOps, Mayor Que Yo with Hector's verse.

thanks! will get on project hector at some point

Joe Cuba R.I.P. (Father of Boogaloo/Bang! Bang! Push! Push!)

RIP Joe Cuba thread

NY Times Article about Fania songwriter Tite and how 5 years after his death a compilation of his songs is out and doing well

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/arts/music/18tite.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

He never did give up that day job, laboring in the Postal Service in Puerto Rico for more than 30 years, mainly as a clerk. But in the recording studio the biggest names in salsa, from Willie Colón and Héctor Lavoe to Celia Cruz and La Lupe, all deferred to Catalino Curet Alonso, the man — known to all as Tite (pronounced “TEE-tay”) — who seemed to be able to write hits for them at will.

That was a great article. I was going to link to it with the xhuxk-like title I Have Never Heard Of This Latino Tunesmith Named Tite Until Today Even Though He Wrote Two Of My Favorite Songs: "Anacoana" and "Puro Teatro."

Yea that would be clever, and the 6 people (if it's that many) who post on this thread might chime in. Oh well.

I did start a thread (consisting mostly of my own posts) when he died:

Tite Curet Alonso--RIP

That new New York Times article is quite good, you're right. Packs a lot in there.

(It's a little sad this thread is dominated by discussion of past greats like Joe Cuba and Tite Curet, or past pretty-good songs from ten years ago, just in the sense that I wish there were more currently that I could get excited about.

im with ya RS, would be nice if salsa hadnt died
fortunately i like new bachata and there is some kick ass mambo merengue being made in the D.R.

Well feel free to post some links to videos and such, if there are any available. (Linking to downloads is pretty much still discouraged here, I think.) Or at least name some names. I don't remember seeing you talking about much recent bachata or merengue on your blog, so I'm wondering what you have in mind.

Also, what the hell is "mambo merengue"?

I'm still not as definite as you are about the whole "salsa is dead" thing. I understand what you mean by it, and I mostly agree, but not entirely. Or maybe I just don't agree that saying salsa is dead is the best way to express it. After all, you liked Back to da Barrio and that came out after you had declared salsa dead. Granted, I would have to agree that that was an exception. But 2006 was not a bad year for salsa, with some of the stuff from Salsaton and also the Guayacan Orquesta album (though I don't think you liked that as much as I did) and Arroz con Habichuela. I know, I know, you make an except for El Gran Combo and ask who is going to replace them--and the correct answer probably is: nobody. But I don't think you can conclusively write the genre off as dead. Merengue is older than salsa and somehow it's still going. Somehow merengue has been able to reinvent itself repeatedly in a way that's kept it alive on a street level, I guess.

And if you aren't going to post this link, I will.

Here's an extensive list of Tite Curet Alonso's songwriting credits:

http://www.herencialatina.com/Cachao/Canciones_Tite/Cancionero_Tite.htm

Wow. I only made it to the Bs. Is that the same "Brujeria" that's the title track of the Mark Dimond album?

I'm not sure.

Not a good sign for salsa in DC (although the club in question is not ideal and music starts so late there)

After 9 years and 9 months no more Thursday salsa nights at Zanzibar:

My dearest friends,

I received word Friday that Zanzibar management is canceling Thursday Salsa Nights. It has been a losing proposition and they were left with no other choice than to stop the loss. I will hold special events there from time to time and inform all well in advance.

I will be very happy if you will join me for the last hurrah this Thursday night at Zanzibar. DJ’s Bruno & Carlos “El Cacique” will close out the great era. Please spread the word since there are only a few days to inform as many as possible. You can help me in expressing appreciation to all the fabulous DJs and dance performers that have entertained us and brought us joy. ...-Eileen Torres

i'd never made it out (rarely get down to sw or se these days), but was under the impression it was one of the best nights out for dancing in the city proper... I'd like to see the night's at Station 9 (the old Cada Vez) on U street pick up but Wednesdays are awkward.