NE-YO v THE DREAM

lol deej c'mon, the-dream has very obviously patterned himself after the r. kelly R&B thug archetype, even if stuff like his high voice and the more sensitive songs kind of take it in a different direction.

i'm not sure what's going on with that cover. i feel like the title should be "ice cream headache."

font is dope

xp: That's why titchy's criticism is so ridiculous. R&B thug lyrics have been ubiquitous and even a genre standard in some areas since at least the mid-late 90s.

i dont really agree that hes going for that archetype at all! or maybe he is but hes failing, if anything the rap references to soulja boy or whatever come off as 'music nerd/studio rat/trying to sell' rather than 'trying to act hard.' i mean his whole steez is steeped in this 'i am an of-the-industry songwriter' thing where kells was just, like, perving.

like the-dream is never playing 'himself' when hes singing, hes writing the songs & performing them. kells was very much playing 'the character of kells' in his tracks -- hes much more on the rap/thug template side where the-dream's much more of an R&B tradition, almost like hes writing songs for other people, then performing them himself

i mean 'luv songs' isnt at ALL a thug track -- its a play on making music in the studio vs. making love! its blatantly 'i am a successful songwriter' not 'i'm a thug who happens to perform R&B'

A lot of interesting stuff happens in the tension between hardman lyrics and pretty melodies, anyway! I mean the "fuuuck that niggaaa" line in "I Luv Your Girl" (prob my single favorite moment on the album) FFS.

i mean u can hate him for the rap references in the lyrics if it bothers u but its realllly disingenuous to suggest thats some fronting/trying to act hard shit instead of just, like, the language of contemporary R&B/ his somewhat improvisational laziness at writing lyrics

First of all, deej, R. Kelly has a bazillion songs like that too. 2nd, I very much get a "character of The-Dream" from the album. Total wannabe-alpha-male who tries to assert his authority by out-douchebagging the real alpha males like R. Kelly, not that The-Dream could ever hope to be successful in that endevout.

Is that last post directed at me or al or titch?

deej there are songs where he thug postures, but i don't see what's wrong with that. it's balanced out by the mushy stuff like "purple kisses" and "playin in her hair" (such a sweet song) as well as stuff like "ditch that" - where the dream is pleading and begging, no longer in the 'thug' position of power - and "livin a lie" - which is again about him cheating/stealing, but it's not on a macho tip, instead it's a pretty good portrait about being v much in love. he ends up constructing a pretty well rounded persona imo, and the thugness of "she needs my love" and "i luv your girl" complements, and is complemented, by the rest of the album

i'm not sure what's going on with that cover. i feel like the title should be "ice cream headache."

― some dudes might think about blow jobs, like, way way way less (some dude),

lmao yes it's somewhere between "ice cream headache" and "telekinetic powers"

"Livin' a Lie" = not about cheating ("this feels worser than cheating" cheating feels worser than cheating? what?) just some secret lover ish

and I don't hear any "begging and pleading" in "ditch that"....

The Dream only plays hardman when there are other dudes around. Otherwise he's just on some chilling w/ his bitch shit.

deej there are songs where he thug postures, but i don't see what's wrong with that. it's balanced out by the mushy stuff like "purple kisses" and "playin in her hair" (such a sweet song) as well as stuff like "ditch that" - where the dream is pleading and begging, no longer in the 'thug' position of power - and "livin a lie" - which is again about him cheating/stealing, but it's not on a macho tip, instead it's a pretty good portrait about being v much in love. he ends up constructing a pretty well rounded persona imo, and the thugness of "she needs my love" and "i luv your girl" complements, and is complemented, by the rest of the album

― big fatass rick ross (J0rdan S.), Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:41 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well yeah but i dont think that really contradicts my argument all that much! maybe u think it congeals more into 'full character' and i think its a lil more engaged in the artifice of a songwriter who's written shit for other ppl, but either way its not a bunch of fronting thug&b -- im pretty surprised anyone would even think to describe it that way -- it doesnt give me r kelly vibes in pretty much any way -- they're very diff artists

rev i was still responding to titch & Al

Naw, obv The-Dream is v influenced by R. Kelly, but how post-Kells maistream r&b dudes aren't?

When "Shawty Is the Shit" came out I dismissed it as an "I'm a Flirt" knockoff until I heard it in the context of the album.

Gotta remember that titchy assembles his arguments by randomly piecing together cut-up squares of paper containing half-true statements. It's like a Challops-o-Matic.

yeah i mean seriously the only way i see the kells thing is in the broadest possible sense -- i guess hes also likely to write some weird lyrics sometimes that make u go 'o rly' but im not sure i see many parallels beyond that -- def dont hear a shawty is the shit / im a flirt parallel

lool tim

def dont hear a shawty is the shit / im a flirt parallel

Mostly in the sonics. otm re: R. Kelly & Dreamer in both not even testing, bust straight up ignoring the boundaries of credulousness on the reg

actually im going to backpedal slightly & say that i bet they do write their songs in a similar fashion, purely on a lyrical level. they definitely give the impression they dont really care about crafting lyrics & are more about the song -- but i dont think the similarities continue beyond & the-dream's hip hop slang etc are more like an affectation than a serious characterization or something -- i dont see anyone thinking hes trying to sound thugged out, hes just improvising colloquially almost

Agreed about the hip-hop slang being an affectation of sorts. Yeah, and "thug" isn't the right word at all. Dude isn't a tough-guy, he just likes to swing his cock nh.

cover is no where near the level of the last one.

This would've been a better cover:

http://www.rap-up.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/dream-my-love-single.jpg

lol sucking in his stomach

surboard & bw both otm

the actual cover is so ridiculous

Hey guys... Terius is producing Mariah's entire new album

it's called EMC3

i hope it's divided into three discs and comes in a cube

uh title.. :-/

I assume that means Tricky & LOS and down for the ride?

btw does bw saying "terius" fall under "saying a dude's real name when shit gets heated"

haha bw <3s dreamer tho

ok, another genius moment: during the bridge of "Purple Kisses", the "DOOoun DOOoun DOOOOoun" background vocals from the intro are now the sound of his doorbell

DOOoun DOOoun DOOOOoun

Now there goes my doorbell
And I'm happy she's here
But I gotta wait a minute

DOOoun DOOoun DOOOOoun

And there's a number two
And even though shawty the shit
I can't let her know she's winning

DOOoun DOOoun DOOOOoun

I'm racin down the stairs
I open the door she's right there
And she's like "how you like my hair? "

DOOoun DOOoun DOOOOoun

I'm like "that bob looks fly but them lips, oh my"
Can't wait til you plant that kiss on me, on me, on me, on me,

Also, how great is that annoyed "Hold on!" in the intro? This is my new favorite song on the album btw.

<3 all of "purple kisses" - as i said in one of these threads it's all about the whoah-oh-oh-OHHHH backing vocals

oh yeah that too, his most powerful vocal moment, not that that's what I look to him for

I've been thinking about the "Livin' a Lie" conumdrum. Most of the people who seem to have glommed onto that song in lieu of the album seem to be big fans of Year of the Gentleman, is that fair? One thing that "Livin' a Lie" shares with most of Ne-Yo's writing (both for himself and others) is a certain fussy conciseness. Both "Livin' a Lie" and your typical Ne-Yo song are very trim, maybe even a bit blocky. "So Sick" is one of the most relentlessy verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus songs I've ever heard. It's total dedication to that form struck me almost immediately even after hearing an unknowable number of songs structured that way. I found how ably it called attention to it's most basic structure fascinating. Ne-Yo does not fuck around. And neither does "Livin' a Lie". The appeal of that type of songwriting is certain, but it is completely at odds with what has transpired over the rest of the album.

One thing that strikes me about the songs on Love/Hate is the pure generosity at work. Most second verses have completely different melodies from the first. Most tracks are overflowing with ideas, with sprawling, extended structures that keep on tacking on new parts. The songs are never long just to be long, they keep hitting you with new melodies, new lyrics, new sounds for their entire durations. Sometimes it gets a bit messy, but there's always a point to it.

It occurs to me that Dream's outside writing is for the most part a lot tighter than what appears on his own album. I'm not sure most of his clients would know what to do with a song as oddly-built as "I Luv Your Girl", tho. "Livin' a Lie" as the Rihanna duet makes a lot of sense in that context. The problem is that after all these decadent song-structures, here comes no-loose-ends "Livin' a Lie" and it's like, "Is that all there is?" That generosity has suddenly been taken away. I imagine why I didn't care for the song at all until I heard it outside the context of the album.

http://img.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/aimg_1273__oPt.jpg

I imagine THAT'S why I didn't, etc.

xp lol waht

I listened to this album 5 times yesterday btw. 2 sober, 3 drunk.

One thing that strikes me about the songs on Love/Hate is the pure generosity at work. Most second verses have completely different melodies from the first. Most tracks are overflowing with ideas, with sprawling, extended structures that keep on tacking on new parts. The songs are never long just to be long, they keep hitting you with new melodies, new lyrics, new sounds for their entire durations. Sometimes it gets a bit messy, but there's always a point to it.

so OTM. the reason i love this album. plus the harmonies of what sounds like 200 the-dreams at once. gets to that sumptuousness someone was mentioning earlier.

ya what rev says. that's what struck me about "purple kisses" i thought it was a good sometimes great song but when i finally noticed the backing vocals that kick in in the second chorus i was like "ahhhhhhhh this"

this decadent overflowing with ideas thing is why i love "playin with her hair" so much - it goes from a sweet upbeat love song to a chanting club anthem

I Luv Your Girl is still the shit.

i used to be mehhh but yeah it's dope - best snap song of 08 for sure

Really? This has always been the standout for me

Its chorus is less massive than most of the other tunes and its sonics are rather restrained so it flies under the radar a bit, at least at first. Maybe I just like The-Dream being super-soft, I'm totally digging his exhausted-sounding falsetto on "Rockin' That Thing" and "My Love". And "Mama" is such a fabulous way to end the album (i hope there are at least two out and out ballads on the new album).

Yeah the generosity thing is OTM, that's probably why "Purple Kisses" is my favourite (most of the time). The "Hold on!" intro is great, it took me a while to work out what's actually going on though.

wow @ the energy you guys can expend talking about this guy. i actually kinda like the album now but serious: do any of you have any reservations about his singing, or disliked his voice at first before getting used to it? because i don't think i'll ever completely enjoy his music for that reason.