i grew up on KROQ
― Bee OK, Sunday, 2 June 2013 05:48 (eleven years ago) link
wait, how many californians here are voting the opposite of where they're from? I'm a bay area kid voting LA.
― wk, Sunday, 2 June 2013 06:10 (eleven years ago) link
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3116/3486805440_c741bdf2cf.jpg
Worlds colliding.
(Bee OK and wk: should I count CCR as San Francisco or not? That probably decides my vote one way or the other.)
― clemenza, Sunday, 2 June 2013 13:42 (eleven years ago) link
If so, you should not count any band that lived outside of LA proper then (Zappa, Beefheart, and I'm sure many others).
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 2 June 2013 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
Is Topanga part of L.A.?
― how's life, Sunday, 2 June 2013 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
Sly is from Vallejo fwiw
― Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 2 June 2013 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
I love that this poll coming down to whether or not we give LA County more credit for absorbing all these shitty suburbs.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Sunday, 2 June 2013 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
If so, you should not count any band that lived outside of LA proper then
That's really my point: L.A. and San Francisco should be interpreted in a general sense here. Anything to do with Vallejo should be adjudicated by this guy:
http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sayhey1/mulanax_zps0e6effa9.jpg
― clemenza, Sunday, 2 June 2013 18:01 (eleven years ago) link
Other soul people? Brenton Wood was from L.A.
― timellison, Sunday, 2 June 2013 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
Bee OK and wk should I count CCR as San Francisco or not?
i did because without them my vote would have went down south.
― Bee OK, Sunday, 2 June 2013 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
come on guys, no need to get picky about stupid municipal boundaries. this is just bay area vs. southern california. the dividing line should be Delano, same as the nortenos and surenos use.
zappa lived in laurel canyon though and the trout mask replica house is in woodland hills, both within LA city limits. didn't the grateful dead form in palo alto or something? take a look at where all of the first acid tests were http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Tests Santa Cruz, San Jose, Muir Beach, Palo Alto.
― wk, Sunday, 2 June 2013 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
right this isn't about city limits its about scenes and ccr weren't a part of the scene
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:31 (eleven years ago) link
were sly and the family stone a part of the scene?
― timellison, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:33 (eleven years ago) link
produced beau brummels, grace slick's first band. so, yes.
― balls, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:37 (eleven years ago) link
from wikipedia article on Santana:
"The group's first audition with this line up was at the Avalon Ballroom in the late summer of 1967. After the audition, Chet Helms the promoter, in concert with The Family Dogg, told the band that they would never make it in the San Francisco Music Scene playing Latin fusion and suggested Carlos keep his day job washing dishes at Tick Tock's Drive-In on 3rd St."
― timellison, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
there's also just more sf-in-1969 in sly's music whereas like ccr's whole thing is that there really isn't and people to this day think it's a southern band
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:42 (eleven years ago) link
Closing night at the Fillmore West in '71 was Santana, Creedence Clearwater Revival, the Grateful Dead, and Quicksilver Messenger Service. CCR must have been viewed by Bill Graham and by the audience as being in the general orbit of those bands. (If the argument is that they were radically different in terms of style and attitude, sure; but the Mothers and Mamas & Papas seem worlds apart too.)
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:43 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.wou.edu/las/creativearts/music/209guideFinal.pdf
33. Were the lyrics and the sound of Creedence Clearwater Revival typical of the San Francisco scene? If not, what were the differences?
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:49 (eleven years ago) link
obviously the answer to this FINAL EXAM is no, they were not
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
dude iatee, the seminal band of the whole scene was the Charlatans FFS! they played old timey music and dressed up like cowboys in victorian suits! CCR's whole style fit perfectly into the SF scene at the time. have you listened to early Grateful Dead? ever heard moby grape or quicksilver messenger service?
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:50 (eleven years ago) link
ccr don't even have a hint of psychedelic in their sound
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:55 (eleven years ago) link
again do you really think the answer for that FINAL EXAM is yes, of course it's not, so I have a western oregon university professor on my side now
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
Your answer is right in the question, iatee: "of the San Francisco scene." It's like asking if X-Ray Spex's sound was typical of the British punk scene circa 1977. It wasn't. Which doesn't mean X-Ray Spex wasn't part of that scene.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 01:57 (eleven years ago) link
I would have loved to have been at any of Fifty Foot Hose's SF gigs in '67-'68. They're sort in the same camp as United States Of America, but plugged into that particular ley line of Bay Area Bummer Psychosis that The Residents, Negativland, etc. also mined.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cq-A8BouRg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WRd-MP30MY
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 3 June 2013 02:11 (eleven years ago) link
a billboard article from nov 14, 1970 has convinced me I am wrong
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 02:14 (eleven years ago) link
I will not quote the parts that show why I am wrong and quote this part instead, because it is more interesting:
"Gleason feels like one of the most overlooked aspects of the San Francisco scene is the fact that urban renewal hadn't destroyed old buildings, so that ballrooms and clubs still existed.
The physical elements were present in Los Angeles, Chicago, but not in Boston, New York. I mean the old ballrooms, clubs, the possibility of communicating to the youth-hippie-university audience quickly and in an open way." Gleason points out. "What has happened in San Francisco hasn't happened in any other city. I don't think it could happen anywhere else. The Bay Area has a particularly homogenous nature and the radio is open."
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 02:19 (eleven years ago) link
I thought iatee was kidding at first, but he's not--the article starts on page 6.
I think I'll have to do a Markov Chain Analysis or something to figure out my vote. I'd forgotten I had this, which has some great stuff out of L.A. (half of it too early for this poll).
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YoMBmOQnL.jpg
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
Trini Lopez tips this to LA for me.
― Josefa, Monday, 3 June 2013 03:26 (eleven years ago) link
(half of it too early for this poll).
it's funny though the timeframe of the question isn't really defined beyond just '60s in general, so we really should be including Phil Spector, surf music, etc. on LA's side too.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 03:53 (eleven years ago) link
shout out to it's a beautiful day, stoneground, sons of champlain
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 03:55 (eleven years ago) link
i'm always meaning to check out more country joe.
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 03:58 (eleven years ago) link
cold blood!
the timeframe of the question isn't really defined beyond just '60s in general
I guess I was thinking from '65 to the end of the decade--that's how I interpreted the post that triggered the poll. So someone like Ritchie Valens is much too early.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:07 (eleven years ago) link
Looks like CCR was playing quite a bit in San Francisco in '68http://www.kolumbus.fi/~w419755/ccr-jcf/set.htm
― late adopter, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:08 (eleven years ago) link
Dino & Carlo's, San Francisco. In 1968, [CCR] played there each Tuesday.
What a brave band to log all those miles, commuting 15 miles one way from their "very, very different city"... if only if it was as easy as getting from Topanga to Hollywood.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Monday, 3 June 2013 04:16 (eleven years ago) link
its not there's a bridge
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
love the byrds and buffalo springfield but between santana, airplane, dead, It's a beautiful day, sly, blue cheer, steve miller band.. gotta go with norcal.
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
I can't even... 20-minute versions of R&B songs? check. backwards tape effects? check. fanciful lyrics about circus animals and cowboys? check.
― Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 June 2013 04:22 (eleven years ago) link
CCR and Sly were both huge parts of the Bay Area scene, the distinguishing factor between them and the rest of the shit is the fact that they wrote better songs. like, 3 minute pop songs that were catchy and well-written and impeccably executed.
― Mr. Scarf Ace is Back (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 3 June 2013 04:23 (eleven years ago) link
a lot of this is admittedly just cause I don't want any reason to defend the rest of the sf scene
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
which was full of terrible terrible music
also the beach boys are better than every single norcal band in history so
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
Shit I didn't know this stuff was going to be on the final. Since Fogerty has such a distinctive voice and wrote one of the most amazing strings of hit singles in pop history it doesn't make sense to describe the band as "typical" in any way. But their old timey southern affectations were a more commercialized development of the types of influences that had been big in the bay area music scene since the early '60s folk music revival. Bands like the Charlatans and the Grateful Dead started out as old time jug bands and eventually created country rock hybrids mixing psychedelic rock with their southern folk and blues influences. The Beau Brummels (basically the first SF rock band) released their country rock album Bradley's Barn (recorded at and named after the famous Nashville studio) the same year as CCR's debut. Quicksilver Messenger Service even played Suzie Q in their live sets. Southern blues and folk influences were completely integrated into the SF music scene from the beginning.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
big xp to iatees way upthread stuff
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:30 (eleven years ago) link
Did the early San Francisco rock stars live in seclusion or among "regular" people?
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
Bear in mind that the Sunset Strip is not even in LA proper, it's in the incorporated city of West Hollywood.
Other random thoughts:
Let's not forget Canned Heat on the LA side.
What about people like Lee Hazlewood/Nancy Sinatra, Neil Diamond, Sonny & Cher...?
I honestly wonder which would be more fun in reality, going to a show at the Whiskey or to a show at the Fillmore or Avalon, circa 1966. Isn't it true that the Fillmore didn't serve alcohol?
― Josefa, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me. LA was the center of the musical world for a few years there at arguably the pinnacle of recorded music history. It wins just on sheer volume alone. That is, if you actually like this kind of music at all. TBH I don't really get anyone who doesn't basically like every band mentioned in the thread so far.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
I'd probably vote LA for Hal Blaine alone.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
..sorry
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensions
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:02 (eleven years ago) link