a lot of this is admittedly just cause I don't want any reason to defend the rest of the sf scene
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:24 (eleven years ago) link
which was full of terrible terrible music
also the beach boys are better than every single norcal band in history so
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:26 (eleven years ago) link
Shit I didn't know this stuff was going to be on the final. Since Fogerty has such a distinctive voice and wrote one of the most amazing strings of hit singles in pop history it doesn't make sense to describe the band as "typical" in any way. But their old timey southern affectations were a more commercialized development of the types of influences that had been big in the bay area music scene since the early '60s folk music revival. Bands like the Charlatans and the Grateful Dead started out as old time jug bands and eventually created country rock hybrids mixing psychedelic rock with their southern folk and blues influences. The Beau Brummels (basically the first SF rock band) released their country rock album Bradley's Barn (recorded at and named after the famous Nashville studio) the same year as CCR's debut. Quicksilver Messenger Service even played Suzie Q in their live sets. Southern blues and folk influences were completely integrated into the SF music scene from the beginning.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:29 (eleven years ago) link
big xp to iatees way upthread stuff
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:30 (eleven years ago) link
Did the early San Francisco rock stars live in seclusion or among "regular" people?
― iatee, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:32 (eleven years ago) link
Bear in mind that the Sunset Strip is not even in LA proper, it's in the incorporated city of West Hollywood.
Other random thoughts:
Let's not forget Canned Heat on the LA side.
What about people like Lee Hazlewood/Nancy Sinatra, Neil Diamond, Sonny & Cher...?
I honestly wonder which would be more fun in reality, going to a show at the Whiskey or to a show at the Fillmore or Avalon, circa 1966. Isn't it true that the Fillmore didn't serve alcohol?
― Josefa, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:38 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me. LA was the center of the musical world for a few years there at arguably the pinnacle of recorded music history. It wins just on sheer volume alone. That is, if you actually like this kind of music at all. TBH I don't really get anyone who doesn't basically like every band mentioned in the thread so far.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:43 (eleven years ago) link
I'd probably vote LA for Hal Blaine alone.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:46 (eleven years ago) link
..sorry
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 04:54 (eleven years ago) link
la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensions
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:02 (eleven years ago) link
cozmik blues shredd, ecstatic soul
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:06 (eleven years ago) link
yeah clem I meant that specific scene the doors sprung out of, wasn't even thinking beach boys never mind nilsson, van dyke parks, monkees - that would just make the gap larger, though i also forgot how involved sly was w/ sf scene and also thought ccr weren't really part of that scene for some reason. think in some ways this is a doors vs jefferson airplane poll.
― balls, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:07 (eleven years ago) link
1st 5 steve miller band albums: one of the best album runs of the late 60s.
― brimstead, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:10 (eleven years ago) link
shit, LA surf bands already did that back when bay area nerds were still learning to tune up their banjos.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:12 (eleven years ago) link
its not there's a bridge
nope, no bridge from San Jose to San Francisco. that would be Oakland to San Francisco. San Jose is about 40 miles though.
― Bee OK, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:37 (eleven years ago) link
la put out some pretty pop songs, sf took us to outer spaces/extra dimensionsshit, LA surf bands already did that back when bay area nerds were still learning to tune up their banjos.
Hell, David Axelrod's production work was equally as spaced out - just in another direction.
Was always wondering if SF's elitism was from sour grapes that the LA bands all made more money.
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 3 June 2013 05:56 (eleven years ago) link
wrong side of the bay, bee ok
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:13 (eleven years ago) link
Otm re: 50 Foot Hose btw, Elvis. Another cool SF band (tho they actually formed in Ohio) is Mad River.
xp
― Drugs A. Money, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:17 (eleven years ago) link
what i was saying is that you don't need a bridge to get from San Jose to San Francisco.
― Bee OK, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:27 (eleven years ago) link
Dionne would know
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:32 (eleven years ago) link
shit no she didn't know!
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:34 (eleven years ago) link
wtf does san jose have to do with anything? ccr was from el cerrito
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:43 (eleven years ago) link
but let's talk about Count Five or Chocolate Watchband if you want to
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 06:46 (eleven years ago) link
for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me
This really pushes a button with me. I assure you, I'm too old for such nonsense; if I post something here, it's because that's how I actually feel. Merely starting with CCR and Sly on one side, of course someone can legitimately prefer San Francisco. In my case, when you revere the Airplane and are kind of tired of the Beach Boys, and the Charlatans and Beau Brummels just happened to hit upon this sound you love--"Alabama Bound" is as drony and as mysterious as the Velvets for me--then it's even easier.
Having said that,
don't really get anyone who doesn't basically like every band mentioned in the thread so far
sums up my own feelings well (i.e., that I basically like every band, not that I can't imagine someone else disliking some of them). Of the first 20 bands I listed, the Doors, Steve Miller, Love, and Quicksilver Messenger Service mean the least to me. But there are songs I like by all of them. I'm not that big a Country Joe fan--but I had "Janis" in a Top 100 list I posted a couple of years ago. There's just so much amazing music here, from top to bottom and on both sides.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 11:45 (eleven years ago) link
50ft Hose definitely a point in San Fran's favour, but nowhere near enough.
― emil.y, Monday, 3 June 2013 11:54 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, for anyone to seriously vote SF just seems like challops of the worst kind to me.
here's the thing. I hate the fucking Beach Boys. If LA had the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Steely Dan, and Ludwig van Beethoven, they'd still have the Beach Boys, whose music is the most unpleasant racket I've ever heard. I would rather listen to my own Cheyne-Stokes respirations than sit through Pet Sounds. So this big grail of LA is to me a gigantic demerit.
― Oral Sex in Sharp’s Ridge Park (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 3 June 2013 13:14 (eleven years ago) link
Are there any good books that take a good look at the late-60s Beach Boys? I've never read anything on them.
― how's life, Monday, 3 June 2013 13:26 (eleven years ago) link
There's one book that got a lot of praise in the late '70s--I remember "Myth" in the title, so this must be the one.
http://www.amazon.com/Beach-Boys-California-Myth/dp/0448146266/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370266352&sr=1-1&keywords=beach+boys+myth
Haven't read it.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 13:34 (eleven years ago) link
Formats Amazon Price New from Used from Expand Collapse Hardcover -- $804.46 $149.99 See # more hardcovers Show fewer hardcovers Expand Collapse Paperback -- $297.08 $55.99 See # more paperbacks Show fewer paperbacks
― how's life, Monday, 3 June 2013 13:38 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, pickings seem to be few and far-between! There's basically nothing available for nook or kindle, either.
― how's life, Monday, 3 June 2013 13:40 (eleven years ago) link
LA wins easily but you could sorta add Creedence to the SF list in terms of geography and timing if not sound.
― Deafening silence (DL), Monday, 3 June 2013 14:01 (eleven years ago) link
Putting Beefheart/Zappa/Mothers in the generic ”etc” category in the poll text seems kinda weird
― unfinest DN (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 June 2013 14:29 (eleven years ago) link
I went by the Rhino box sets for those lists--they weren't included, so they slipped my mind (ditto CCR). Not a comment on either.
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 14:30 (eleven years ago) link
Also you can't really vote SF without overlooking all the great factory/industry pop in LA....maybe LA vs Detroit would be a more fair fight w motown in addition to the pfunk/stooges etc?
― unfinest DN (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 June 2013 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
At some point in '66 John Fogerty was drafted into the Army Reserve and he only re-entered civilian life in July '67. Also, Doug Clifford was in the Coast Guard Reserve around this time. Perhaps CCR's link with the San Francisco scene was broken in some sense by missing out on that crucial period of it.
― Josefa, Monday, 3 June 2013 15:11 (eleven years ago) link
The first couple of CCR lps sound like they're being influenced by what's going on around them in SF. Extended jammed songs on the first lp & a lot of the same feeling on the 2nd. Seems like they change quite a bit, get more succinct and less repetitively expansive by the 3rd lp.
Ramble Tamble extendedness seems to have a different feel to that of Suzy Q certainly.So that's '68 and early '69 where they still sound like they fit in. There are 3 or 4 different lps in '69 so not sure if that's reflecting different influences or different production. What I've heard of live stuff from that time sounds like its got a lot of the feel that their Suzy Q has, jammed out stuff.
― Stevolende, Monday, 3 June 2013 15:23 (eleven years ago) link
The LA region is so much larger and more populous than SF that it's really not a fair fight. With that in mind, LA scene (or anti-scene, maybe) just seems more diverse, so many different bands with different approaches, as opposed to a bunch of ex-folkies jamming on Gibson SGs (plus Sly the outlier.) So it's LA pretty easily, but I have high regard for the SF scene nonetheless - really, I like practically everyone mentioned on this thread so far.
― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 3 June 2013 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
United States of America easily balances that out for LA's side.
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
I always forget the United States was from LA. Yeah I am comfortable with my vote...
― Drugs A. Money, Monday, 3 June 2013 17:22 (eleven years ago) link
USA were very short lived though. Less than 6 months in the recording line-up I think.
― Stevolende, Monday, 3 June 2013 17:39 (eleven years ago) link
Some other LA bands that haven't been mentioned yet but are worth consideration:
Leaves, Dovers, The Merry Go Round, The Rising Sons, Alice Cooper, Millennium, Sagittarius, The Association, The Smoke, October Country, The Ballroom, Eternity's Children
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
Davie Allan & the Arrows
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago) link
might as well allow Dr. John in there too
― wk, Monday, 3 June 2013 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
otm x 1000 (except for sly)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 3 June 2013 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
i realize this is a boring un-hip opinion and everyone who's cool has long since moved on to being 'over' hating the dead but it needs to be said: the grateful dead are still the worst of the fucking worst
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 3 June 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
Worse even than the Airplane? Your animosity spilleth over...
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 21:20 (eleven years ago) link
i was probably going a bit overboard upthread -- i do like a couple airplane songs.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 3 June 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
Well apart from them 9grateful Dead) being absolutely brilliant up to 1974 at least. Well at least lots of their recorded material the ability to fail live just added to the risk which made it more interesting. But there is hours of very good impro rock that is amazing
― Stevolende, Monday, 3 June 2013 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
One Dead song I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't get with their wandering stuff: "Cold Rain and Snow" from their debut. Just a great pop song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qkbF8PbtE
― clemenza, Monday, 3 June 2013 21:25 (eleven years ago) link