comparing the evolution of 'classic rock' between uk and usa

I mean, the point was that the industry was thoroughly dominated by the US and UK at that point.

maybe the question itt is why didn't american mnstrm rock music develop the same complete fixation on the past that happened in the uk, even though 'classic rock' radio became institutional so early in america

Have you ever heard of this band called the White Stripes.

the White Stripes didn't exactly sell millions of albums did they? Not in the way .... say Oasis did in the UK.

Three platinum albums, one gold in the US, if Wikipedia is to be believed.

what do working class 'blokes' in the uk listen to when they're on a job site or driving around in their lorries?

haha how would ilx know that? ;)

haha well i know about usa dudes* ('folks' - thanks obama) from riding around in their trucks and being on their job sites

* nb some of these dudes are not exactly dudes and if you put on anything other than the country station you're gonna git somethin done to you

and my thought is, for this demographic in the usa, there just is not anything else to listen to: that's the only thing, unless you want to listen to talk radio.

which makes it perplexing what their uk counterparts would listen to when there's NOTHING.

I keep forgetting that oasis was much, much, much more famous in the UK.

And I say that fully laying out there that oasis was really, really famous here in the USA.

* nb some of these dudes are not exactly dudes and if you put on anything other than the country station you're gonna git somethin done to you

Country dominance led to a mild culture shock when I moved to the Prairies. Regina is the first city I've lived in that doesn't have a real classic rock station!

For those of you outside the States, here's a peek at New York AOR circa 1987:

The 1987 WNEW-FM Top 1027 Songs of All Time Listener's Poll.

It's a poll, not a playlist, so there's a few things on here that almost never got airplay, and some things didn't make it even though they got lots of airplay.

something purely and declaratively reactionary

Despite its many flaws, I disagree that this describes the US classic rock format.

What? Of course it does. How does it not?

Well, I guess it is "reactionary" in the sense of wanting to preserve a version of the past. I guess I was thinking of "reactionary" in political terms. Also, I didn't entirely agree that it was defined by opposition to disco, (esp) new wave, and rap.

not that there is a lack of ancestor worship in american rock music of the last 25 years but it's not as entrenched as in the uk

Highly debatable. The UK has never come up with anything as ancestor worshipping as 'classic rock' radio.

X-post: I'm not getting the distinction you're making between uses of the word "reactionary." It seems to me that AOR/Classic Rock was designed from the beginning to become obsolete fairly quickly. It froze its aesthetic at a certain point in time (around 1973) and it was built to reject any kind of major disruption to the established tradition. Therefore no disco, no punk, no rap, etc. could possibly be absorbed into the format.

i don't recall any 'disco sux!!' promos by the late 80s/90s on my us station, but i also don't recall hearing 'stayin alive' (but: 'miss you')

they also had a fitful flirtation (special weekend show, 'young' dj etc) with alt-rock circa nirvana before someone locked that shit down (though i would not be surprised if they still played pearl jam, 'man in the box', etc)

and my thought is, for this demographic in the usa, there just is not anything else to listen to: that's the only thing, unless you want to listen to talk radio.

which makes it perplexing what their uk counterparts would listen to when there's NOTHING.

― j., Sunday, August 11, 2013 8:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is revelatory to me. i mean i don't ride in trucks with anyone, but the people i do ride in trucks with have satellite radio or a u2 cd they got in 2005. there just isn't anything in a format. format matters more than ever before rn.

"in a format" = "in a standard format." and i'm not in any way agreeable rn.

Country dominance led to a mild culture shock when I moved to the Prairies. Regina is the first city I've lived in that doesn't have a real classic rock station!

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, August 12, 2013 3:44 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i think that's true for most radio markets on the prairies. there's sometimes an AM oldies station that lacks the classic rock station posturing and plays a lot of motown and the beau brummels, but the only FM rock is usually generic rock station that also delves into classic rock station staples.

recent wolf 104.9 regina playlist excerpt:

Jimi Hendrix Hey Joe
City And Colour Thirst
Van Halen Panama
Finger Eleven Good Times
Headstones Long Way To Neverland
Sheepdogs Feeling Good
Led Zeppelin Kashmir (Live O2 Arena London)
Kiss Lick It Up
The Tragically Hip New Orleans Is Sinking
Soundgarden Halfway There

are nos. 2, 4, 5, 6, 9 canadian? because i've never heard of them except the tragically hip

i don't recall any 'disco sux!!' promos by the late 80s/90s on my us station, but i also don't recall hearing 'stayin alive' (but: 'miss you')

Disco was long gone by then. Rock stations never played "Stayin' Alive," even when it came out. They played "Miss You" because that was the Stones and you could sort of pretend it wasn't a disco song. The Bee Gees were considered AM radio stars - they were ignored by rock radio.

city and colour, canadian, oldman hat makeoutclub throwback kind of sad ballad indie rock

finger eleven, canadian, wikipedia: their breakout hit "one thing" was used by the wwe for a tribute video for chris benoit, canadian wrestler that murdered his family and killed himself with a bowflex

headstones, canadian, mid90s sorta punk serious rock, like, smoking cigarettes on stage and having knuckle tattoos, and their biggest hit was a cover of "tweeter and the monkey man," hugh dillon was in hardcore logo, a tv show called flashpoint and an episode of degrassi titled "when doves cry."

sheepdogs, canadian, definitely all have beards, wear vintage rock band t-shirts, corduroys and sound sort of like the guess who, as far as i know.

UK has plenty of classic rock stations, is this only a thing since digital or something?

flashpoint is good! i will assume then that the situation is kind of like if steve albini was a crime scene tech on a cbs police procedural xp

UK has plenty of classic rock stations, is this only a thing since digital or something?

yes they never existed here before digital.

what do working class 'blokes' in the uk listen to when they're on a job site or driving around in their lorries?

Talksport but, yeah, how would anyone on ILX know the answer to that question?

Finger Eleven had a big US hit with "Paralyser".

Are you in Regina, dylannn? My friend from Edmonton had the opposite culture shock when he moved to Toronto, which has no country station.

Josefa, I guess I don't exactly see the preservation of a rock tradition as being DEFINED by opposition to other styles, in the way that I don't think conservatories are defined by an opposition to jazz or pop. Also, the Ottawa station, which does identify as a classic rock station, does play plenty of modern rock, including e.g. Green Day.

"AOR doesn't need James Brown because Led Zeppelin did "The Crunge." AOR doesn't need Stevie Wonder because Led Zeppelin did "Trampled Under Foot." Led Zeppelin did everything, so it's just easier to play them all the time."

---

in its time, AOR was also known, not unfairly, as apartheid oriented rock. alternative rock stations weren't any different or any better. lots of dance music by white british people and not a lot of dance music by anybody else. lots of beastie boys and not any hip-hop whatsoever by anybody else. the continuing racism of classic rock is self-perpetuating. the longer they don't play james brown or stevie wonder or p-funk or prince, the more they'll cement an audience that doesn't want to hear it.

― fact checking cuz, Monday, August 12, 2013 2:28 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this true then that US classic rock stations were basically racist?

re blokes in vans, last week I was walking to the train station and a middle-aged bloke in white Transit came by blaring out We Call It Acieeed by D-Mob, so maybe the UK equiv to classic rock radio is a Kiss FM Oldies channel?

is this true then that US classic rock stations were basically racist?

yep. sexist too.

But they'll whip out Hendrix and Phil Lynott in their defense whenever prodded.

I cant say I ever recall any UK radio stations playing mainly white artists

re white van/cabbies etc round here younger ones seem to blast out either radio 1 or clyde 1 (commercial radio equivalent.) Older ones like "Real Radio" which is basically a mostly 80s version of radio 1/clyde 1. I can imagine talksport being popular in an all-bloke environment though like tom d said.

http://www.realradio-scotland.co.uk/

Love Live Music
Currently Playing

Michael Buble: Haven't Met You Yet

http://www.realradio-scotland.co.uk/shows

does Real Radio exist down south?

Arguably, the distinction between 'rock' and 'R&B' since the 60s is itself based more on social/racial factors than musical ones, considering that Led Zeppelin probably has more in common with Funkadelic than with Bob Dylan. Did this become more cemented with AOR then? My understanding is that freeform stations still played e.g. jazz and blues.

Xposts

Anyone here old enough to remember the 70s so they can tell me if more rock was played on say radio 1 than in the 80s? How much airplay did heavy rock/punk actually get? Im assuming commercial radio of the time ignored it like they always did.

I guess I don't exactly see the preservation of a rock tradition as being DEFINED by opposition to other styles

No, I don't either. First of all, I'm talking here about the AOR/Classic Rock tradition, not a rock tradition as defined in other ways. I'm saying the AOR format defined itself, early on, as a narrow playlist of songs plus strict guidelines that would allow certain reasonably familiar-sounding new songs to be accepted into the playlist every year. Disco was considered too different from the originally defined sound to be absorbed, and somewhat more surprisingly, so was punk rock. Rap never had a chance. I said AOR was built to "reject" aberrant styles, but perhaps reject is too strong a word and "ignore" is better.

Oh, I'm fine with "ignore".

classic rock certainly not the default listen for UK working class dudes, most peeps i know listen to oldies pop, dance, ska etc

yeah same. happy hardcore type stuff is still the chosen genre of some of my old mates from when i moved here.

OMG happy hardcore and ska! Trying to imagine that on a construction site, failing.

builder friend of mine can name year of release with pinpoint accuracy cos it ties in to wherever he was working at the time

Atm, I am sitting in an office filled with construction and forestry partsmen. Am willing to wager that no one here knows what happy hardcore is.

lucky them sund4r

its what most people my age listened to in the 90s here.

I never really thought of this radio format as being politically right-leaning, though.

fwiw that guy is otm about the great smoky mountains

Heard the single edit of "Whole Lotta Love" on the Jack station today. It's a much more boring song without the entire middle section! If there's a case to be made for the CR format, this has to be it.

marilyn manson will probably fill the next generation's campy gay metal role. i guess that's all "normal" is really. Working Joe's parents probably hated metal as much as Joe hates rap. The Circle of Life completes itself.

― matlewis, Friday, April 1, 2005 1:41 PM (8 years ago)

other thread dude otm

Are there any Classic Alt. Rock stations yet?

I dont mean modern rock stations stuck in the 90s I mean an actual Classic Alt. Rock format like Classic Rock?

Nakh do you listen to radio?

no

Forever The Sickest Kids – Chin Up Kid
The Hype Theory – Reverie
Blitz Kids – Run For Cover
Rival Sons - You Want To
Killswitch Engage – Always
Falling In Reverse – Rolling Stone
Turisas – For Your Own Good
Enter Shikari - Radiate
Panic! At The Disco – Miss Jackson - NEW
Letlive – Dreamer’s Disease- NEW
Zebrahead – Call Your Friends- NEW
We Came As Romans – Fade Away- NEW
Black Spiders – Balls- NEW
The Winery Dogs - Elevate- NEW
Drenge – Face Like A Skull- NEW

― ..it would have sounded about as heavy as Talulah Gosh. (Algerian Goalkeeper), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 00:31 (4 days ago)

idk what the any of this is, except killswitch & enter shikari

Melodic metalcore is a fusion genre blending traits with metalcore and melodic death metal, which combines sounds and traits from both genres.[1] It has melodic guitar riffs, blast beats, metalcore-stylized breakdowns and vocals that can range between growls, screaming and clean singing.

if that's the Outkast track then me and P!atD are no longer friends

When asked about the band's main influences, Mike Portnoy commented that they are working towards a classic rock sound, influenced by Led Zeppelin, Cream, Jimi Hendrix, Grand Funk Railroad, slightly by Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Black Crowes and Lenny Kravitz.[1]

= the american version of

Everything from The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan through to The Stone Roses, the Charlatans, Primal Scream, Ocean Colour Scene, Paul Weller, Oasis, Kasabian?

Drenge – Face Like A Skull- NEW

isnt that the band Tom Watson MP mentioned in his resignation letter to ed mil?

After spending the last three days driving across the Upper Midwest and Northern Ontario, I am feeling qualified to speak on FM rock radio formats in this stretch of mostly small-town North America. I am wondering if this might help clarify some of the discussions/arguments earlier.

So:

i) Proper bona fide classic rock stations that e.g. play Styx or Kansas on the hour and play nothing since the mid-80s and are well-described by this thread are still a staple pretty much everywhere in the US along this stretch. I don't think I actually came across one along this stretch in Ontario. They seem to have largely been phased out in favour of either a) stations named after carnivorous mammals (wolf, fox, or bear) that play Rush alongside Sam Roberts or the Tragically Hip or the Black Keys or b) stations named after monosyllabic male first names that play Golden Earring alongside Abba and Kool and the Gang.

The Wikipedia list of radio stations in Ontario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_stations_in_Ontario) lists 5 classic rock stations but 16 'classic hits' stations, 18 'active rock' stations, and 16 'adult hits' stations. Of those classic rock stations, I know that at least the Ottawa one plays plenty of 90s and 00s music as well. On the other hand, this list lists 22 classic rock stations, 32 classic hits stations, 7 adult hits stations, and 4 active rock stations.

ii) In the same way that a St Louis accent sounds more 'neutral' to me than my own, your classic rock format seems more 'normal' to me on some level. (Your classical music stations are kind of lame though.)

iii) I am a little intrigued as to whether this difference is indicative of a trend that will eventually spread to the US or whether it is due to the fact that Canadian stations have to play a quota of Canadian music, which didn't really come into its own until after rock's classic period.

iv) The White Stripes and Black Keys have a remarkable ability to blend in so well on the a) sort of station that until the obvious hook enters, I sometimes can't tell whether I'm hearing a 70s song or a recent one.

v) Most interestingly, oldies stations that plays 50s and 60s pop are still a real thing on FM radio in the US. I haven't come across one in Canada in 20 years, I don't think. (According to Wiki, they still exist on the AM dial.) Some stations CALL themselves oldies stations but are basically in this format.

Also, this is my new favourite radio programme:
http://www.prairiepublic.org/radio/radio-programs-a-z/friday-night-swing/

Most interestingly, oldies stations that plays 50s and 60s pop are still a real thing on FM radio
in the US.

there are stations that switch to an all-christmas music format during the holiday season where they play modern favorites like mariah but otherwise it's heavy on classics from the 50s/60s and earlier.

Our local "oldies" station ("Continuous 60s and 70s hits!") does the all-Christmas thing starting in like fucking October or some shit. Fills me with ia.

Fuck Mannheim fucking Steamroller.

Timely: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/what-your-favorite-classic-rock-band-says-about-you

Steely Dan: You have snorted cocaine off a copy of Remembrance of Things Past.

Fleetwood Mac: You have snorted cocaine off a copy of The Hobbit.

Blue Oyster Cult: You have snorted cocaine off a copy of Type 2 Diabetes for Dummies.

Mountain: You have snorted cocaine off a Blue Oyster Cult record.

Nazareth: You have snorted cocaine off a member of Mountain.

Hawkwind: You sell cocaine to Nazareth fans.

Molly Hatchet: You sell baking soda to Hawkwind fans and tell them it’s cocaine.

s/timely/relevant, e.g. it's old but I saw it again today and it's perfect for the thread

hahaha:

The Eagles: You can only reach orgasm while listening to talk radio.

Issue #9 of Classic Rock Magazine presents AOR
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Comments 9
gbarton at 04:50pm September 16 2013

Issue nine of melodic rock’s finest magazine tells how AOR’s barracudas held their own against industry sharks, ex-boyfriends and the 1980s. Our in-depth Heart cover story spans the years 1974-1985 and features exclusive all-new interviews with Ann and Nancy Wilson.

PLUS! FREE CD: Supersonic – 15 soaraway melodic rock songs with Sammy Hagar, Reckless Love, Houston, Robin Beck, Newman, Harem Scarem, Degreed, Screaming Eagles and many more.

Key features in the issue:

Sammy Hagar – The Tequila man on Van Halen, Ronnie Montrose… and how he gets by with a little help from his (famous) friends.
The Babys – Over three decades after their split, The Babys are back, without original singer John Waite – but with his blessing.
Obscure UK AOR – They’re the also-rans and coulda-beens of Britain’s Adult Oriented Rock scene, the Top 30 great groups the world at large never heard about– until now. With Midnight Blue, Moritz, She, Torino, Monro, Geneva, Kooga, LaRoche, AOK, Arena and many more. Come meet your new favourite old bands…
Patty Smyth – The Scandal-ous story of how Patty made it big, how she almost joined Van Halen, and how she’s coming back.
Robin Beck – With her new LP, Underneath, the girl from the Coke ad proves she’s the real thing alright.
Reggie Knighton – The strange-but-true story of the AOR singer-songwriter who penned songs about Elvis, love and UFOs, before disappearing into the computer world.
Graham Bonnet – The veteran frontman talks Rainbow, MSG, Alcatrazz… and flashing his bits in West End restaurants.
Santa Cruz – The unfeasibly young Scandi-rockers grew up listening to Eminem and Limp Bizkit. But they’re (more than) alright now.
Chasing Violets – French sisters are doing it for themselves – with a little help from Frédéric Slama of AOR (the band).
Steve Overland – “I’ve sung on some weird things, like Kit-E-Kat advertisements,” purrs the FM man.
Lost Weekend – It’s a long, twisting tale of record label frustrations, of cutting albums in less-than-ideal situations, of chasing a dream against all odds and with little in the way of tangible reward. But one listen to this band’s finely honed AOR will prove it was all worth it…
Arc Angel – Thirty years on, Arc Angel have risen again. Jeff Cannata talks us through his journey from the proggy majesty of his Cannata project, back to Arc Angel’s effortlessly melodic rock.
Live reviews – Sweden Rock, Steve Lukather, The Val, Vega, Steelhouse Festival, Bryan Adams, Heaven’s Basement, Rick Springfield, Richie Kotzen…
Album reviews – New releases from Reckless Love, Newman, Robin Beck, Houston, Santa Cruz, King Kobra, Sammy Hagar, Michael Monroe; reissues from REO Speedwagon, Nick Gilder, Warrant, Derringer…

The new issue of AOR magazine goes on sale this Wednesday (September 18).

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Noodle Vague did you buy any of these mags?

OMG happy hardcore and ska! Trying to imagine that on a construction site, failing.

Bros working on the parking garage next door have been listening to classic rock (np: Pink Floyd - "Run Like Hell") all day. I just had a chuckle imagining them working to happy hardcore.

taglines like "Classic rock that rocks", "New Zealand's real rock station", "Just great rock", "We Endorse This Music", etc

Do any American CR stations have obnoxious taglines? Like defend-the-Alamo type stuff?

Or is it just The Sound in New Zealand? It began as a competitor to Hauraki and
The Rock, both of which are (now) mostly focused on the last 30 years. It seems like Hauraki removed a lot of the older rock it used to play, in response to The Sound grabbing that audience. You wouldn't expect MGMT and Amy Winehouse on Hauraki, but there they are.

Then there's The Sound. The Completely New No-Hype station!! Which is why their slogans have been "Less Lady Gaga, More Radio Gaga" "Keeping our music alive", and "This is the greatest music ever written"... Not that there's anything *wrong* with a white Anglicised '70s time-warp, but it makes it a bit unlikable altogether.

I wonder which listeners really believe The Who and Genesis are endangered music :) They should've just called it "Your Vinyl Collection, With Ads". Someone buy them a Herbs record, or something...

Highly debatable. The UK has never come up with anything as ancestor worshipping as 'classic rock' radio.

Yeah we did.

''The inhabitants of Britain originally worshipped their ancestors''

That truly was the golden age...

I just had a chuckle imagining them working to happy hardcore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBuehLCn_XE